Automatic T worthy?

[Old School]

Now, I got one yesterday that I'm going to apologize to you right now before describing it. But I also want to get your opinion on my thoughts here. Late in a wreck league playoff game, I had a player give me a lot of grief after a call I made on his big player. I think he went over the limit but I didn't T him. The call was on another player on his team and I just went over to the table to report. He was like the coach/floor general on his team. I didn't want to T him because I didn't want to ruin my good relationship with him. Former CBA player and I have a lot of respect for him. He went on an on. That was a BS shot, how you gonna give my player a foul on that BS shot!

After the game, they won, and as I was walking out. We passed each other and I told him I should have given you a T on that one incident, and he said yea, I know and I appreciate you not doing that. You know I didn't mean nothing by it, I was just excited in the moment. I told him, if you ever do me like that again, it will be a T. We shook hands and went our way. Interested in hearing your thoughts on this situation and if you have ever been in a situation like this before, and how did you handle it? Since I was at the table I was not in a position to give him the stare or tell him that's enough, but I heard every word. I had the good angel bad angel going back and forward in my head. You should T him for that! Naw, let's just get thru the game! That's several BS's in a row, that's too many, T his a$$! Naw, let's just get the ball back in play so we can get this over with.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

I didn't want to T him because I didn't want to ruin my good relationship with him. Former CBA player and I have a lot of respect for him. He went on an on. That was a BS shot, how you gonna give my player a foul on that BS shot!

Lah me....didn't want to ruin a relationship.....

You're officiating a game, not hosting the Dr. Phil show.

If you ever want to develop into a real live, honest-to-goodness official some day, you're going to have to grow some balls. It's that simple.

As usual though, feel free to come up with some lame excuse why you shouldn't have called a "T".

[K-Bach]

On the issue of "Automatic T's":

Playoff game, HS Varsity Girls, the game is well into the blowout stage. B coach, his team down by 30+, starts accusing the officials of extreme bias ("you're only calling our fouls", "that's horrible", "why don't you just give them the game?") He was assessed a T, followed shortly by a second (while the first was being reported, I believe). He left the gym without incident and escaped the humiliation of coaching the rest of a game he expected to win.

I was in the stands with other officials and several evaluators. One of the evaluators, after making a complimentary remark about the handling of the coach, offered another tactic. He suggested that, after the first T, the second official could have wandered by and informed the coach that he would not be given a second T and therefore would not be given an easy escape from horror of witnessing his girls' embarrassing loss. If he wanted to give up on his team and leave, he would have to do so on his own volition. Otherwise, I (the official), who cannot leave and must suffer through the remaining 15:00 of the game, would expect him to suffer as well.

Personally, I like it. It's cheeky and punitive , and does not allow a selfish coach to escape when his team cannot.

[mplagrow]

A few lines that will always get a T from me:

"Hey ref, is it hard to blow the whistle with your head so far up your @$$?" I seldom let that one go by.

"You are to reffing what Michael Jackson is to child welfare!" I don't let that go either.

And, the most automatic T in my book, when a coach yells out:

"HEY, OLD SCHOOL!"

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by mplagrow

A few lines that will always get a T from me:

"Hey ref, is it hard to blow the whistle with your head so far up your @$$?" I seldom let that one go by.

"You are to reffing what Michael Jackson is to child welfare!" I don't let that go either.

And, the most automatic T in my book, when a coach yells out:

"HEY, OLD SCHOOL!"

Yeah, that last one is universally accepted as a T around here. JMO.

[MJT]

BillyMac, one thing I can say about you, is you consistently have the LONGEST posts of anyone. I hope you type about 200 WPM as much as you write!!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by K-Bach

He suggested that, after the first T, the second official could have wandered by and informed the coach that he would not be given a second T and therefore would not be given an easy escape from horror of witnessing his girls' embarrassing loss. If he wanted to give up on his team and leave, he would have to do so on his own volition. Otherwise, I (the official), who cannot leave and must suffer through the remaining 15:00 of the game, would expect him to suffer as well.

Personally, I like it. It's cheeky and punitive , and does not allow a selfish coach to escape when his team cannot.

I'm not personally a fan of this, but wouldn't think less of an official who is able to successfully pull it off.
You might be setting yourself up for some serious crap the rest of the game; stuff that seriously deserves a T and sets a horrible example. And, you've just told the coach that he's going to be able to get away with it.
If you can get it to work, fine; but I'd be leary of teaching newer officials this.

[Junker]

I wouldn't tell a coach he wasn't getting a second. I may try to ignore some antics if I can when I know the coach wants to go, but if it gets too bad, you just have to dump them.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by K-Bach

One of the evaluators, after making a complimentary remark about the handling of the coach, offered another tactic. He suggested that, after the first T, the second official could have wandered by and informed the coach that he would not be given a second T and therefore would not be given an easy escape from horror of witnessing his girls' embarrassing loss.

This is one of those comebacks that gets brought up on here from time to time. For me, it's one of those things that sounds really great in my head, but I would never use on the court.

Besides - if you do something to earn a T and I'm reffing, everyone expects that the T will be called . . . and I hate to disappoint!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by K-Bach

I was in the stands with other officials and several evaluators. One of the evaluators, after making a complimentary remark about the handling of the coach, offered another tactic. He suggested that, after the first T, the second official could have wandered by and informed the coach that he would not be given a second T and therefore would not be given an easy escape from horror of witnessing his girls' embarrassing loss. If he wanted to give up on his team and leave, he would have to do so on his own volition. Otherwise, I (the official), who cannot leave and must suffer through the remaining 15:00 of the game, would expect him to suffer as well.

Personally, I think that logic is right up there with Old School's post. It's just another excuse not to call a "T". You're not only letting that clown completely get away with his crap, but you're also setting up the next bunch of officials that get him to have to deal with nonsense like that. Why should they have to clean up somebody else's mess?

Put up with that crap for another 15 minutes without doing something about it? Well, I sureasheck wouldn't! Just take care of bidness. Deal with what happens and don't try to overthink these types of plays.

[SWMOzebra]

Originally Posted by K-Bach

He suggested that, after the first T, the second official could have wandered by and informed the coach that he would not be given a second T and therefore would not be given an easy escape from horror of witnessing his girls' embarrassing loss. If he wanted to give up on his team and leave, he would have to do so on his own volition. Otherwise, I (the official), who cannot leave and must suffer through the remaining 15:00 of the game, would expect him to suffer as well.

I'm not sure what I would say if my evaluator or assignor gave me this suggestion. Tell a coach no more T's for him the rest of the game? Regardless of language, conduct toward officials, conduct towards opposing coaches/players? The coach could sure make the last 15:00 of the game absolutely miserable for the officiating team. What about indirects...do you give everyone on the bench a pass as well? Even assistant coaches?

I think I'd have to tell my evaluator/assignor to give me whatever negative critique or feedback he wanted, I wouldn't do it and I'd have major issues backing a partner that did it without discussing it with me first.

He couldn't have been serious about this suggestion, could he?

[K-Bach]

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra

He couldn't have been serious about this suggestion, could he?

Only in the most sarcastic sense of the word "serious."

[JoeT]

Originally Posted by K-Bach

He suggested that, after the first T, the second official could have wandered by and informed the coach that he would not be given a second T and therefore would not be given an easy escape from horror of witnessing his girls' embarrassing loss. If he wanted to give up on his team and leave, he would have to do so on his own volition. Otherwise, I (the official), who cannot leave and must suffer through the remaining 15:00 of the game, would expect him to suffer as well.

As a coach who's suffered lopsided losses, I assure you I have never been embarrassed by my team or not wanted to be with them in a difficult situation. If you think "making" me stay with them is "punitive," you're wrong. You might want to be aware of that when you use the above tactic.

If I show you up or try to embarrass you, I deserve a T. What do you deserve for hoping that I suffer embarrassment or trying to engineer a situation that you think embarrasses me?

It frightens me that an evaluator suggested such a BS move.

[Adam]

I've seen officials joke to the effect of, "If I have to stay here and finish this, so do you." However, I normally put this kind of joke into the same category as the jokes about blaming your partner for overtime. I don't take them seriously, because no official I know would honestly put up with this kind of behavior as some means of "punishing" the coach.

If the coach wants to make a statement to his players by not watching the rest of the game, he can turn the game over to his assistant and walk away on his own volition. That'll say a lot more than getting booted for being an a$$.

As K-Bach later stated, the evaluator was not serious about it, and was most likely either joking with the guys he was sitting with, or he was testing them to see what they thought of this "approach."

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Lah me....didn't want to ruin a relationship.....

You're officiating a game, not hosting the Dr. Phil show.

If you ever want to develop into a real live, honest-to-goodness official some day, you're going to have to grow some balls. It's that simple.

As usual though, feel free to come up with some lame excuse why you shouldn't have called a "T".

No excuses this time. I didn't take care of business and it bothered me. A friend of mined once told me after a game we worked. I like to sleep at night. I never lost any sleep calling a deserved T, but if I failed to call a deserved T, I would be up all night kicking myself for not.

I wonder if this is not one of those issues that officials don't like to talk about openly. I mean there's some serious influential people in the basketball world. You go T up the wrong coach and that could effect your ability to keep a strong schedule. If you put too much emphasis on getting a DI schedule for example, you want to stay away from stuff like this and try to keep all relationships positive. This is a double edge sword for the official. Damn if you do, damn if you don't. I bet there are many coaches that know this.