BU v SIU tournament game...

[Adam]

What violation did he commit that would warrant a delay of game warning?

[JRutledge]

I have no problem with the way this was handled.

Peace

[JohnBark]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

What violation did he commit that would warrant a delay of game warning?

good question...what about breaking the throw in plane? and if that not correct, why didn't the official charge the BU player with a throw in violation for stepping inbounds prior to releasing the ball on the throw in?

i just think that since the official blew his whistle, that something other than a "do over" should have happened. and i'm not sure what, but i'm trying to figure this out for learning purposes. if no delay of game, then certainly we have a throw in violation on the BU player. had the BU player, not ended up on the floor and "inbounds" but had stayed OOB, then I think you have a no call and no whistle. but, the official blow his whistle for something. why did he blow the whistle, what's the call???? "DO OVER"???!!!! what the heck it that...

[Adam]

We can blow our whistle for a do-over on throwins. If the thrower fumbles the ball when we bounce it to him, we tweet and start over. There's your precedent.

If the player was OOB trying to get back in, you can't call Delay of Game because he was legally OOB. Otherwise, you'd have coaches demanding the DoG warnings and technicals every time a shooter was still OOB following his shot if the other team gets it at their disposal quick enough.

The only other call you could possibly make would be an intentional foul for fouling a thrower on the throwin.

[JohnBark]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

We can blow our whistle for a do-over on throwins. If the thrower fumbles the ball when we bounce it to him, we tweet and start over. There's your precedent.

If the player was OOB trying to get back in, you can't call Delay of Game because he was legally OOB. Otherwise, you'd have coaches demanding the DoG warnings and technicals every time a shooter was still OOB following his shot if the other team gets it at their disposal quick enough.

The only other call you could possibly make would be an intentional foul for fouling a thrower on the throwin.

true we can blow a whistle for a "do over" on throw ins. but, the thrower didn't fumble the ball at all. he had possession of it. and i understand your point about the player being legally OOB.

certainly no easy answer other than the one that the official did. but, it certainly has made me think and i think made alot of us other officials think about it too.

thanks for everyone's input so far. i was just wondering what the correct call would be. and i'm still not sure a "do over" is the correct call. why not a throw in violation on the thrower for stepping into the court prior to releasing the ball on the throw in then???? i think i could justify that just as easily as you are justifying a "do over" call, don't you?

thoughts?

[Adam]

I know the play is different, I was only using the do-over as a precedent to show that blowing the whistle for a do-over isn't the crime you made it out to be previously.

Before you call this throwin violation, you would need to call the intentional foul on the defense (former shooter). If you're sure the player did it on purpose, then you could justify this call.

If you think the contact was incidental and did not cause the thrower to step inbounds, then you can make the violation call.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I know the play is different, I was only using the do-over as a precedent to show that blowing the whistle for a do-over isn't the crime you made it out to be previously.

Before you call this throwin violation, you would need to call the intentional foul on the defense (former shooter). If you're sure the player did it on purpose, then you could justify this call.

If you think the contact was incidental and did not cause the thrower to step inbounds, then you can make the violation call.

The only thing you can call from my estimation is an intentional foul. It does not fit the definition of a delay. The player was completely out of bounds trying to get back in bounds. The player did not reach across the line and disrupt the throw-in.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JohnBark

good question...what about breaking the throw in plane? and if that not correct, why didn't the official charge the BU player with a throw in violation for stepping inbounds prior to releasing the ball on the throw in?

i just think that since the official blew his whistle, that something other than a "do over" should have happened. and i'm not sure what, but i'm trying to figure this out for learning purposes. if no delay of game, then certainly we have a throw in violation on the BU player. had the BU player, not ended up on the floor and "inbounds" but had stayed OOB, then I think you have a no call and no whistle. but, the official blow his whistle for something. why did he blow the whistle, what's the call???? "DO OVER"???!!!! what the heck it that...

I think this was the only common sense thing to do. The shooter is now out of bounds because he lost his balance and fell. He got up in a frenzy and ran back onto the floor, which he is allowed to do. I do not feel he did anything wrong according to the rule, he just ran into the thrower and the thrower ran into him. All he could really call is an intentional foul if you want to be very technical about the rule. But the player was not defending the thrower he was just running to a spot. If he attempted to block the pass I might think something should be called. That apparently did not happen, so I agree with the officials. Now the reason I think some of us say this is because this is not a common occurrence and there is nothing in the rules that supports your opinion directly. So the officials have leeway to decide what is fair and what is best.

Peace

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Now the reason I think some of us say this is because this is not a common occurrence and there is nothing in the rules that supports your opinion directly. So the officials have leeway to decide what is fair and what is best.

Peace

Exactly. NFHS Rule 2-3. My favorite one in the whole book.

[socalreff]

This was an intentional act. For me, I think this could fall under a similar case play at the end of a game. Interfering with the ball after a made basket is a delay of game warning. However, if done at the end of the game to stop the clock or to gain an advantage, it is an immediate T with no warning. I think a T for an unsporting act would be warranted.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Exactly. NFHS Rule 2-3. My favorite one in the whole book.

This was an NCAA game, not a HS game.

Peace

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This was an NCAA game, not a HS game.

Peace

I realize that. I don't do NCAA games, so I was just citing the one I knew. Is there a similar rule in the NCAA book?

[JRutledge]

Actually the rule refenence is exactly the same. But this is not always the case.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

What violation did he commit that would warrant a delay of game warning?

No violation. Technical foul. The player went sideways along the end line to make contact with the thrower instead of just returning straight back in-bounds like he was supposed to.

NCAA rule 10-3-18--"purposely delaying returning to the playing court after being legally out-of-bounds".

NCAA rule 10-3-21--"delaying the game by preventing the ball from being promptly made live or preventing continuous play".

Your choice......

[JRutledge]

Wow, that is a stretch.

Peace