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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 21, 2007, 11:24am
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Backcourt violation?

Boys Varsity, two whistle game.

A1 has the ball in their front court near the wing. A1 attempts a hard pass to his teammate near the opposite baseline and inadvertently hits the front of the rim. Ball deflects toward the backcourt. A2 grabs the ball with one foot in the front court and his next step carries him into the backcourt.


Legal play or is it backcourt?

I called backcourt, but I'm not real confident about it.
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Old Wed Feb 21, 2007, 11:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mu4scott
Boys Varsity, two whistle game.

A1 has the ball in their front court near the wing. A1 attempts a hard pass to his teammate near the opposite baseline and inadvertently hits the front of the rim. Ball deflects toward the backcourt. A2 grabs the ball with one foot in the front court and his next step carries him into the backcourt.


Legal play or is it backcourt?

I called backcourt, but I'm not real confident about it.
BC violation with or without the rim being involved.

team control
ball with FC status
last to touch in FC
first to touch in BC
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Old Wed Feb 21, 2007, 11:38am
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So your saying it would have been a BC violation even if they had not touched the ball until it was in the backcourt?
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Old Wed Feb 21, 2007, 12:03pm
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If A1 made a hard "pass" and not a shot, then team A never lost control and therefore it is a backcourt violation.
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Old Wed Feb 21, 2007, 12:05pm
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Even if they lost control on a "shot," it's a backcourt. A2 regained control with on foot in the front court and the other foot in the air. He has FC status, so the ball has FC status. Putting the 2nd foot down in the BC is a violation.
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Old Wed Feb 21, 2007, 12:06pm
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The thing that made it a back court violation in your opening post was that A2 gained possession in FC and with his next step went into BC.

If A2 had BC location by having all or part of feet already in BC, I would not have called a BC violation. The ball hitting the rim is a "try for goal" in my game. I am not going to try to read the player's mind as to what he/she intended. I will judge the play based on the facts. Ball leaves A1's hands, ball hits rim, therefore it is a try and team control ends. 4.12.2

Coaches, players and fans may argue that it was a pass. It might have, it might not have. I will give the "passer" the benefit of the doubt and call it a try.
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Old Wed Feb 21, 2007, 12:13pm
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There was no doubt that it was a pass, it was just a bad pass. It was an overhand toss to the opposite side, in the corner.

I feel confident that I made the right call now.
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Old Wed Feb 21, 2007, 12:16pm
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Tough call

Quote:
Originally Posted by mu4scott
There was no doubt that it was a pass, it was just a bad pass. It was an overhand toss to the opposite side, in the corner.

I feel confident that I made the right call now.
So if we have the same play and the "pass" goes in the basket, are we not going to consider it a try.

And what is A1 is "passing" and gets fouled and the ball goes in the basket?

IMO its a hard sell to say its not a try when the ball hits the rim.

Thanks
David
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Old Wed Feb 21, 2007, 12:17pm
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Further more, if the ball hits the rim; I'm allowing A1 to retrieve it without restriction if it bounces back towards him.
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Old Wed Feb 21, 2007, 01:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David B
So if we have the same play and the "pass" goes in the basket, are we not going to consider it a try.
We will not consider it a try, but points will be scored (points are scored whenever (?) a live ball goes through the basket -- whether it was a try or not).
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Old Wed Feb 21, 2007, 02:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
We will not consider it a try, but points will be scored (points are scored whenever (?) a live ball goes through the basket -- whether it was a try or not).
thanks for the clarification, instead of try I should have said attempt for goal.

As we know the try is an attempt to score a field goal.

Thanks
DAvid
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Old Wed Feb 21, 2007, 09:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David B
thanks for the clarification, instead of try I should have said attempt for goal.

As we know the try is an attempt to score a field goal.

Thanks
DAvid
Whatever you call it, it still doesn't matter. As Bob said, when a live ball passes through the basket, we score the points (2 or 3). If a player shoots at the wrong basket, it's not a try but we still score the points albeit for the other team. The only difference I can think of where we have to determine whether it is a try or not relates to an event that would cause the ball to become dead. By that I mean, if a try is in flight and time expires, the ball does not become dead and if it goes through the basket we still count it. If it is not a try, the ball becomes dead when time expires. Just like a 3 point basket. We don't have to determine whether it is a try or not, just the location of the person throwing the ball. If they attempt an alley-oop and intsead the ball goes through the basket, it's still a score (2 or 3 depending on location of the thrower) even though it may not be a try. Did I confuse everyone enough already?

Mregor
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Old Thu Feb 22, 2007, 12:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mregor
Whatever you call it, it still doesn't matter. As Bob said, when a live ball passes through the basket, we score the points (2 or 3). If a player shoots at the wrong basket, it's not a try but we still score the points albeit for the other team. The only difference I can think of where we have to determine whether it is a try or not relates to an event that would cause the ball to become dead. By that I mean, if a try is in flight and time expires, the ball does not become dead and if it goes through the basket we still count it. If it is not a try, the ball becomes dead when time expires. Just like a 3 point basket. We don't have to determine whether it is a try or not, just the location of the person throwing the ball. If they attempt an alley-oop and intsead the ball goes through the basket, it's still a score (2 or 3 depending on location of the thrower) even though it may not be a try. Did I confuse everyone enough already?

Mregor
I thought that if a player shoots a successful 3-pointer at the wrong basket, it only counts for 2 points for the other team. Is that correct?
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Old Thu Feb 22, 2007, 12:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCRef
I thought that if a player shoots a successful 3-pointer at the wrong basket, it only counts for 2 points for the other team. Is that correct?
Yes, and the previous post did not state any differently.
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Old Thu Feb 22, 2007, 01:57pm
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I alluded to this previously, but there is another case where we have to determine if it was a try. A1 dribbles up the court and picks up his dribble just past the division line. He attempts an alleyoop pass to A2 towards the rim, but instead hits the rim (and only the rim) causing the ball to bounce directly back towards A1, who takes 4 steps before recovering it.
If his throw isn't a try, it's a violation when he touches the ball next. If it is a try, then he's got a new dribble and everything.
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