Backcourt violation???

jshock · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 25, 2002, 04:18pm

Player A1 has control of the ball in their front court and while passing to A2, B1 deflects the ball toward the division line. A2, while in the front court, trys to get possession, fumbles or muffs the ball into the back court and then goes to the back court and is the first to get possession. Is this a back court violation??

Hawks Coach · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 25, 2002, 04:29pm

4 components of back court violation (stolen I admit, but these violations are so easy when looked at in this manner)

Team control - yes (A1 had, B never gained team control)
Ball in front court status - yes
A last to touch f/c - yes
A first to touch b/c - yes

VIOLATION!

By the way, even if A1 had possession in backcourt, and the rest of the events transpired as described, you still have a violation. That is A1 passes (team control ahas been established by A) to front court (ball in front court status), B deflects (no change in team control yet), A2 touches while still in front court (A last to touch f/c), and A2 recovers ball in backcourt (first to touch b/c).

CYO Butch · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 25, 2002, 04:40pm

Say A1 is passing to A2, right behind the line. From the front court, B1 reaches into backcourt (feet still in front court, but ball still in backcourt) and deflects pass. Does this give the ball front court status? If it does, then is this a violation when the pass is retreived by A2?

Hawks Coach · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 25, 2002, 04:47pm

Yes, but. . . For this to be a violation, you would still have to have A2 touch while in the front court, which would make the whole thing pretty clear cut. If A2 touched in backcourt only, the fact that the ball acheived front court status is irrelevant, because you do not meet the third condition, A last to touch in front court. Make sense?

Bart Tyson · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 25, 2002, 04:48pm

Yes this is f/c status when B1 touched the ball and No violation b/c B1 was the last to touch.

Nevadaref · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 26, 2002, 01:02am

Please note that while great 99% of the time, the four-point system for determining backcourt is not a perfect substitute for the rule.
For example, the second part of the backcourt violation rule(9-9-2) is a bit different since no touching in the frontcourt is necessary, and one also needs to remember the exceptions for an airborne player.
That said, I do like this way of understanding/teaching backcourt and use it myself.

[Edited by nevadaref on Nov 26th, 2002 at 12:28 AM]

bob jenkins · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 26, 2002, 08:28am

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Please note that while great 99% of the time, the four-point system for determining backcourt is not a perfect substitute for the rule.
For example, the second part of the backcourt violation rule(9-9-2) is a bit different since no touching in the frontcourt is necessary,

That's because HawksCoach wrote it wrong. He wrote:

Quote:

A last to touch f/c - yes
A first to touch b/c - yes

It should be:
A last to touch before b/c
A first to touch after b/c

Quote:

and one also needs to remember the exceptions for an airborne player.
[Edited by nevadaref on Nov 26th, 2002 at 12:28 AM]

Right -- the exceptions apply to the rule and to the four-points version of the rule.

Hawks Coach · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 26, 2002, 11:33pm

That'll teach me to steal somebody else's thunder

Lotto · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 27, 2002, 01:15pm

Last year I was working a game where team A had the ball in the front court. B1 knocked the ball away, towards the backcourt. Players from team A and team B both dive for the ball. The ball takes a bounce in the front court, then A1, who is lying on the floor in the front court, got her hand on top of the ball and starts a dribble. The first bounce of the dribble is on the division line. As soon as the ball comes back up and hits A1's hand...

TWEET!

A was the home team. The crowd didn't like the call much.

BktBallRef · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 27, 2002, 01:18pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Lotto
A was the home team. The crowd didn't like the call much.

They rarely do.

Hawks Coach · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 27, 2002, 01:31pm

I am always happy when I get a ref who can get a situation like this right (and for the right reason - not just dumb luck!). This is a good sign that 1) they know the rules and 2) they know how to apply the rules to the unexpected situation and 3) they are really on top of what is happening on the floor that day. The refs that nail these kind of calls also tend to get a lot of other things right too, which makes the game so much better.

[Edited by Hawks Coach on Nov 27th, 2002 at 12:34 PM]