Reasons for Players Attitudes

[Terrapins Fan]

I posted that last night I "T"ed up another player for running her mouth. I also said that the coach was all over me the entire game complaining about every call.

Please let me elaborate. I am doing the varsity contest and I get to the JV game before half time ( as we are suppose to ) the JV ref isn't feeeling well and asks if I would do the 2nd half of the JV game. No problem, I like to double up most of the time anyway. It get's me more focused before the varsity game. When I come out on the floor ( and I had a good half time report of how the game was going from my partner ) The visitors were winning by 12 points. Overall, the game is going well, but there are a lot of fouls on both teams. We are in the bonus before the end of the 3rd quarter. We have 2 offensive fouls on the home team, both good calls. ( I called one ) The visiting coach is complaining about every call ( except the ones that go his way. )
Starting the 4th quarter the home team has cut the lead to 4. In the fourth quarter, There is a lot of reaching in to steal the ball or to get a jump ball. On the throw in in backcourt B2 ( visitor ) reaches in and grabs A1's arm but A1 controls and pulls away. I got nothing. A1 says "get your hands off of me" B1 starts mouthing off and continues to mouth off past half court. I couldn't hear everything but I heard enough to know, it was unsportsmanlike conduct and I "T" her up. The visitor goes jumps up and says " Why are you even here?" , "We would be better off if you had never come out of the locker room" I look at him and say "coach do you want a "T" also?" He controls himself and says " no seriously, why are you here?" I explain the situation and all is fine. He still complains off and on through the rest of the game, but not worthy of a "T"

Home team takes the lead and it goes back and forth till Home team takes a 3 point lead and wins the game. As I am leaving the floor visiting coach makes another comment about my officiating and he seems to think that we ripped him off. IF his team had a 2 point lead, I would have "T"ed him up for the comment.

I love how it's always the officials fault. It has nothing to do with players throwing bad passes, taking bad shots or not playing defense. It's the referees fault that they lose.

And we wonder why they have an attitude....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I also said that the coach was all over me the entire game complaining about every call.

The visiting coach is complaining about every call ( except the ones that go his way. )

The visitor goes jumps up and says " Why are you even here?" ,"We would be better off if you had never come out of the locker room" I look at him and say "coach do you want a "T" also?" He controls himself and says " no seriously, why are you here?" I explain the situation and all is fine. He still complains off and on through the rest of the game, but not worthy of a "T"

As I am leaving the floor visiting coach makes another comment about my officiating and he seems to think that we ripped him off. IF his team had a 2 point lead, I would have "T"ed him up for the comment.

I love how it's always the officials fault.

In your case, it is your fault for putting up with crap. All over you the entire game? Complaining about every call? Complains off and on through the rest of the game even though you warned him? It's completely ridiculous to put up with the crap that you're putting up with. You'll use any excuse in the world to try and justify your failure to never call a completely deserved "T".

If you won't do what you're supposed to do, then don't whine about those mean old coaches. Either sac up or quit complaining. It's your own fault. I've got zero sympathy for officials that are afraid to call technical fouls.

[NewNCref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

In your case, it is your fault for putting up with crap. All over you the entire game? Complaining about every call? Complains off and on through the rest of the game even though you warned him? It's completely ridiculous to put up with the crap that you're putting up with. You'll use any excuse in the world to try and justify your failure to never call a completely deserved "T".

If you won't do what you're supposed to do, then don't whine about those mean old coaches. Either sac up or quit complaining. It's your own fault. I've got zero sympathy for officials that are afraid to call technical fouls.

Agreed JR. Also, I take issue with this.

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

IF his team had a 2 point lead, I would have "T"ed him up for the comment.

If it's a T at any point during the game, it's a T before I leave the court, regardless of the score. Sure, that T might not have affected the outcome of the game, but if he didn't cool it, he may have well earned another one, which could have affected the outcome.

Now, I wasn't there, so I don't know the whole situation, but just because the penalty for the T wouldn't affect the outcome of the game doesn't mean I'm not going to call it if deserved.

[Terrapins Fan]

You're telling me, that if you call a walk and the coach says " that wasn't a walk, she never moved her pivot foot" and if you call a foul and the coach says " She never touched her" and you don't call anything and the coach says " where's the foul?" that you are going to "T" him up?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

You're telling me, that if you call a walk and the coach says " that wasn't a walk, she never moved her pivot foot" and if you call a foul and the coach says " She never touched her" and you don't call anything and the coach says " where's the foul?" that you are going to "T" him up?

I'm telling you that I will not let a coach complain about every call(your words). Ever. You will, as you admitted several times above, and also in numerous other threads.

If you're going to let coaches repeatedly dump all over you, fine. That's entirely up to you. Just please don't moan and whine about those nasty old coaches if you're not prepared to do something about their behavior. It's your own fault and no one else's.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

You're telling me, that if you call a walk and the coach says " that wasn't a walk, she never moved her pivot foot" and if you call a foul and the coach says " She never touched her" and you don't call anything and the coach says " where's the foul?" that you are going to "T" him up?

If we started the game this way

The visitor goes jumps up and says " Why are you even here?" , "We would be better off if you had never come out of the locker room"

it's very unlkely he would be around long enough to complain about walks.

[cmckenna]

Gotta agree with Dan and JR here. Coaches need to coach and that does not include coaching me as the ref. How can you let someone question you on EVERY call? It is not constructive and just sends a message that a coach can walk all over you.

Also, why ask the coach if he wants a T? By that point in the game there should be no leeway. The comment was personal in nature and questioned your ability. Immediate T in my book whenever it gets personal.

As JR says.... you gotta take care of bidness. Other officials are gonna get this coach at somepoint and he is going to pull the same crap with them.

[TimTaylor]

I agree with the others. When the line is crossed, it's the officials' responsibility to penalize the disruptive behavior.

There is a difference between a coach whining and actively protesting almost every call. I'll ignore the former as long as it's not disruptive, but the latter needs to be dealt with. There was an article in Referee a couple months back on communicating with coaches - had some good tips on when & how to respond to a coach's comments, and just as importantly, when to ignore them.

The "Why are you even here? We would be better off if you had never come out of the locker room." comment would have drawn an immediate T. If he didn't immediately change his behavior as a result, then as Dan_ref said, it's very unlikely he would be around long enough to do much complaining - and certainly not make the post game comment.

[Terrapins Fan]

OK, I am in my 7th year. Last night in the 2nd game ( it wasn't as bad as the first ) I am with 2 guys that have over 20 years each. Neither of them called a "T" on either coach and there was complaining, just not as much.

If I "T" up every coach that deserves it, I won't be working.

I "T"ed up a coach last year and he called my assignor and banned me from his home games.

The way I feel is as long as it doen't get personal, it doesn't affect me.

Please tell me this, are you guys doing games and the coaches aren't complaining? I NEVER see a game like that. Our games here are more like what you see when Maryland plays ( and Gary Williams is complaining constantly ) or Bob Knight is coaching and working the refs.

Also, why ask the coach if he wants a T? By that point in the game there should be no leeway. The comment was personal in nature and questioned your ability. Immediate T in my book whenever it gets personal.

Again, I go back to the coaches line " why are you even here" He was close to crossing the line, but remember, in my area, we have 15 schools that we cover with 39 officials. We all know one another. This guy, I used to coach with. I coached for 11 years. That doesn't mean I won't give him a "T" if I need to, but I understand who he is.

Say what you will, my goal is to be fair to the kids. This was a great comeback game for the home team. The visitors fell apart after half time. Part of that could have been my officiating, I say that because I was told at half time that the official that I replaced wasn't calling much, he missed walks and a few fouls because he was sick and slow on the whistle. I called everything I saw.

There are times in a game when we know we missed a call, in this game I felt very good. I missed have missed a tap out of bounds or two ( on which team tapped it out ), but that was about it. Remember, I came into this game half through the event, I am trying to catch on what is going on in the game as it progresses.

[Texas Aggie]

Why are you even here?" , "We would be better off if you had never come out of the locker room"

What part of this do you think is NOT personal?

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

If I "T" up every coach that deserves it, I won't be working.

I "T"ed up a coach last year and he called my assignor and banned me from his home games.

It sounds like maybe the issue here isn't you, it is your association. Why are coaches making decisions to "ban" officials from games? I can see letting them make a request, but your assignor needs to back you better. I'm really lucky to have the assignors I work for. If you don't enforce sportsmanship, you won't be working. That's the way it should be in my opinion.

[Terrapins Fan]

I agree with you. Coaches should not ban officials, but it happens ALL of the time here. We have several officials banned from different schools.

I have no horse in any game. I go to do the best job I can.

Again as far is what the coach said, I felt he was close to getting the "T", one more comment and I would have rung him up, But after I asked him if he wanted a "T" also, he calmed down.

Most of you guys were never a coach, I was, I understand how coaches think, you want to know how they think?

They think that YOU are out to get them. They think that YOU hate them. And they HATE YOU. They also think they know the rules better than you do. Believe it or don't I was one of them.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

Most of you guys were never a coach, I was, I understand how coaches think, you want to know how they think?

They think that YOU are out to get them. They think that YOU hate them. And they HATE YOU. They also think they know the rules better than you do. Believe it or don't I was one of them.

So what? Who cares what they think?

Here's some news from someone who thinks like an official:

Coaches will continue to piss all over you until you change their behavior.
You are unwilling to change their behavior.

And guess what? They *still* hate you, even though you let them piss all over you.

Enjoy.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I posted that last night I "T"ed up another player for running her mouth. I also said that the coach was all over me the entire game complaining about every call.

Please let me elaborate. I am doing the varsity contest and I get to the JV game before half time ( as we are suppose to ) the JV ref isn't feeeling well and asks if I would do the 2nd half of the JV game. No problem, I like to double up most of the time anyway. It get's me more focused before the varsity game. When I come out on the floor ( and I had a good half time report of how the game was going from my partner ) The visitors were winning by 12 points. Overall, the game is going well, but there are a lot of fouls on both teams. We are in the bonus before the end of the 3rd quarter. We have 2 offensive fouls on the home team, both good calls. ( I called one ) The visiting coach is complaining about every call ( except the ones that go his way. )
Starting the 4th quarter the home team has cut the lead to 4. In the fourth quarter, There is a lot of reaching in to steal the ball or to get a jump ball. On the throw in in backcourt B2 ( visitor ) reaches in and grabs A1's arm but A1 controls and pulls away. I got nothing. A1 says "get your hands off of me" B1 starts mouthing off and continues to mouth off past half court. I couldn't hear everything but I heard enough to know, it was unsportsmanlike conduct and I "T" her up. The visitor goes jumps up and says " Why are you even here?" , "We would be better off if you had never come out of the locker room" I look at him and say "coach do you want a "T" also?" He controls himself and says " no seriously, why are you here?" I explain the situation and all is fine. He still complains off and on through the rest of the game, but not worthy of a "T"

Home team takes the lead and it goes back and forth till Home team takes a 3 point lead and wins the game. As I am leaving the floor visiting coach makes another comment about my officiating and he seems to think that we ripped him off. IF his team had a 2 point lead, I would have "T"ed him up for the comment.

I love how it's always the officials fault. It has nothing to do with players throwing bad passes, taking bad shots or not playing defense. It's the referees fault that they lose.

And we wonder why they have an attitude....

I think this line said a lot -- call the foul for the grab of the hand -- who cares if the offensive player pulled away -- your lack of calling this foul led to A1 talking to B1 -- who talked back -- where you didnt like what B1 was doing after A1 initiated the smack because of a no call on B1 and you end up Ting up B1 when a personal foul here could have prevented this.

also after a coach complains about 3 or 4 calls in a row he/she will hear from me that I will not tolerate the questioning of every call. then if they complain about the next one or the next 2 they will be sitting the rest of the game and its up to them if they want to finish the game from the locker room or actually try and coach. That choice is theirs and I was nice enough to offer it to them.

But here it seems like you let it escalate to the point it got to and you want sympathy -- sorry I agree with the others you let the coach get to that point. however I agree with nocalling that last T -- no need to go plumbing

[Junker]

Originally Posted by deecee

I think this line said a lot -- call the foul for the grab of the hand -- who cares if the offensive player pulled away -- your lack of calling this foul led to A1 talking to B1 -- who talked back -- where you didnt like what B1 was doing after A1 initiated the smack because of a no call on B1 and you end up Ting up B1 when a personal foul here could have prevented this.

This sounds like a good no call to me. It's about advantage/disadvantage. Players need to learn that they have to play through a little contact.