Reasons for Players Attitudes

[David B]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

WHile you are correct on the facts, there is more to it than that. Coaches also routinely referee from the bench. That doesn't last long in my games. Ask me why on a specific play I didn't call something. Ask me politely and I'll tell you. "Coach, he was bobbling the ball and had no control." But demand calls, yell out "travel" , "reach", or my favorite "Over the back" more than once and the seatbelt salesman will be smiling again as he just got another sale.

I see your point, but it all goes back to knowing how to talk with an official.

I coached for 10 years before becoming a referee and it made me a better referee because I know what its like to be on the bench, and also having to work to keep my job.

But you are right, too many coaches don't know how to work an official. The higher level that I've worked the better I've seen the coaches at working an official.

But at the same time, officials need to recognize that it is the coach's job to win the game and part of that is dealing with officials.

Nothing wrong with saying 'that's a travel' - it probably was and we just missed it. But saying 'you haven't called traveling all night' - oops different animal, and we have to deal with it accordingly.

Thanks
David

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by David B

But just to write about coaches complaining about calls it crazy, that's what they are paid to do.
David

SHow me ONE coaching job description where it says it's their job to complain.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

SHow me ONE coaching job description where it says it's their job to complain.

Its that three letter word .... W I N!

[Ignats75]

But at the same time, officials need to recognize that it is the coach's job to win the game and part of that is dealing with officials.

Yes, but it is specifically listed in the rules that trying to influence an official's call is unsporting behavior and a technical should be called. ANY time a coach is yelling out violations and fouls from the bench, he is actually doing that. We as a group only have ourselves to blame that it even happens in games. If we enforced that rule like we do, say, the fighting rule, it would never be an issue.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Yes, but it is specifically listed in the rules that trying to influence an official's call is unsporting behavior and a technical should be called. ANY time a coach is yelling out violations and fouls from the bench, he is actually doing that. We as a group only have ourselves to blame that it even happens in games. If we enforced that rule like we do, say, the fighting rule, it would never be an issue.

I know your point, coaches are out of hand, but your analogy is a little out of sync with reality.

You are the official, a player travels and #23 who is playing defense looks at you, gives the traveling signal and says "that's a travel".

You go to the other end of the floor and #23 gives his opponent a haymaker to the jaw - and a brawl ensues.

So as an official we are to officiate both the same way?

But, as a whole I know what you are talking about - had 5 T's in our divisional final last weekend - players and coaches completely out of control

The only way it will be controlled is when officials do not pander to the coaches.

Thanks
David

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by David B

You are the official, a player travels and #23 who is playing defense looks at you, gives the traveling signal and says "that's a travel".

You go to the other end of the floor and #23 gives his opponent a haymaker to the jaw - and a brawl ensues.

So as an official we are to officiate both the same way?

Yes. We should officiate them both the same.........as the rules intend. And actually, if a player did what you described in the first example, I would T him up. ITs probable that if I did that, the second act doesn't happen because if his coach is smart, he took him out of the game.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

And guess what? They *still* hate you, even though you let them piss all over you.

Only now they don't respect you either.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by David B

Its that three letter word .... W I N!

SHow me a coaches contract that stipulates that they must win. And I'm talking about at the HS Level. Hell, even at the D1 Level I doubt that is in a clause of the contract.

[Terrapins Fan]

I will not say that this board has an influence on when I will call a "T", But I called 2 tonight...` on a coach, one on a player, both questioned my " No call" I warned both teams at half time that I wasn't going to put up with any more complaining. I "T"ed up the home coach ( who was winning ) in the 3rd quarter and a visiting player in the 4th quarter after I didn't make a call on his drive to the basket. He said twice, "You've got to make that call" So, I made the call"T".

Now after the game, I am taking to his coach. He complains that I need to take more criticism. I explained that I shouldn't take any at all. He disagreed. I explained that if I take a little, next time I get more and it only escalates. He walked away.

I explained the "T" to the officials for the next game. they didn't think I should have called them. One of the officials there has over 30 years and has never ( NEVER ) call one "T". He is not the only official in our board that has never called a "T", my bet is we have at least 3. remember we have 39 officials.

I still do not believe that any of you have influenced my calling the "T"s but I do expect you will think you have. I am up ro 9. I have 2 more games scheduled....My goal is ZERO in those games. I will let you know.

[Kelvin green]

30 years and no T's... Unless he can can sell sand to a Kuwaiti, its gutless and a cop out.... Somewhere he would need to call a T...


Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor---Other times they just need to get whacked.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

30 years and no T's... Unless he can can sell sand to a Kuwaiti, its gutless and a cop out.... Somewhere he would need to call a T...


Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor---Other times they just need to get whacked.

Sorta like being a cop for 30 years and never writing a traffic ticket.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Sorta like being a cop for 30 years and never writing a traffic ticket.

Or eating a donut

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I will not say that this board has an influence on when I will call a "T", But ...

Then why do you come here? What is the point of engaging fellow officials in a dialogue about officiating if your intent is to not allow them to influence your thinking? You have hundreds, maybe even thousands, of years combined officiating experience at every imaginable level here on this board. Why would you NOT want to learn as much as you possibly can from everybody here?

Surely you don't come just to pontificate from your vast store of experience and knowledge.

[Terrapins Fan]

I never said I don't learn. My point was that I am not calling "T"s based on this discussion, but in the last week, I have called as many "T"s as I have all season. It's just a coincidence. I have not tracked my "T"s in the past to see when they were called. Part of the reason for having more now than all season, could be the games mean more to the teams and coaches. I can't say.

But what I can say is that I am hearing more crap from players and coaches lately.

[Time2Ref]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I never said I don't learn. My point was that I am not calling "T"s based on this discussion, but in the last week, I have called as many "T"s as I have all season. It's just a coincidence. I have not tracked my "T"s in the past to see when they were called. Part of the reason for having more now than all season, could be the games mean more to the teams and coaches. I can't say.

But what I can say is that I am hearing more crap from players and coaches lately.

Terripins Fan,

I think you may be getting a little defensive here. There is a lot to be learned from this forum. You may not like the way it is being said, but consider what is being said.

Let me give it a stab.

First off, I think part of the problem in this situation was that you entered the game at halftime. I have never done that before, but I imagine it would cause all sorts of problems, including having to clean up a mess made by somebody else.

Secondly, you stated that you have 39 officials to cover 15 schools. Do the math. 15 schools, 8th/9th grade, JV/Varsity, Boys/Girls. 39 officials. The Schools are not in the drivers seat here. The officials are. Who they gonna get to officiate all those games?

Try this for kicks. Start calling any and every unsporting foul you see. No warning, no discussion, don't take any crap off of anyone. Stay calm, blow the whistle, report the unsporting behaivor, give em another one, throw em out, forfeit the game. Write the reports to the State Association.

Either one of two things will happen. You will be blackballed by all 15 schools, the local Association, and the State Association or you will start getting some respect from these coaches who think they are running everything including the officials.

15 schools and 39 officials? What do you think will really happen?

Oh yeah. And try to remember the folks here are your comrades. They say the things they say to help YOU!

Of course, you don't have to listen to me. I'm just a rookie. But, I'm rooting for you just the same as if you were my brother.