Referee with "rabbit ears"

[JRutledge]

When are people going to gain some damn perspective? IT WAS A DAMN MIDDLE SCHOOL GAME. They do not show these games on SportsCenter. I would not be surprised if no one from any media outlet was even at the game. If you take the kids to McDonalds after the game they will be happy. MY GOD WHEN ARE ADULTS GOING TO LEARN!!!! It was one call in a MIDDLE SCHOOL GAME!!!

Peace

[cmckenna]

Still waiting for the answer.... are you writing a letter about the ASSistatnt coach????

[Splute]

All good points and good question(s) (m&m guys too), but tell me do Refs police themselves? For instance if a Ref in your group (assuming you occasionaly have new crew) steps outside of what you believe to be actions edifying the Referee code of ethics, do you speak to them or just blow it off?

[dkmz17]

Don't need to, the principal of the school was present at the game. By the same token, if the local referee assignor was present, then my "letter" should not be needed. Also, I now recognize that I overstated my intent. Really, what I want is to make sure that the assignor, or the local AD's are aware of the referee's behavior.

Question - if the ref's behavior was inappropirate or his grasp of the rules is deficient, does the assignor simply no use him/her unless absolutely necessary or do they receive some type of remediation/counseling?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Splute

All good points and good question(s) (m&m guys too), but tell me do Refs police themselves? For instance if a Ref in your group (assuming you occasionaly have new crew) steps outside of what you believe to be actions edifying the Referee code of ethics, do you speak to them or just blow it off?

Do coaches do that? If the answer is no then you should expect the same answer from officials. Officials are not above anything.

If it was me, we would not have had that conversation. The rules are clear that assistant coaches have very little if any rights. And not only would that assistant coach would have been T'd up, he might have been ejected if he was calling me those names. The official was doing their job and do not have to put up with comments like this from any coach. THIS WAS A MIDDLE SCHOOL GAME!!!!

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

Don't need to, the principal of the school was present at the game. By the same token, if the local referee assignor was present, then my "letter" should not be needed. Also, I now recognize that I overstated my intent. Really, what I want is to make sure that the assignor, or the local AD's are aware of the referee's behavior.

Question - if the ref's behavior was inappropirate or his grasp of the rules is deficient, does the assignor simply no use him/her unless absolutely necessary or do they receive some type of remediation/counseling?

What did the official do? He responded to a fan in a MIDDLE SCHOOL GAME!!!! He T'd up an assistant that was completely out of line. The official did not call anyone names. The official did not flip off anyone. He did not use foul language. He did not go up into the stands. What the hell did he do?

Peace

[Splute]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Do coaches do that? If the answer is no then you should expect the same answer from officials. Officials are not above anything.

If it was me, we would not have had that conversation. The rules are clear that assistant coaches have very little if any rights. And not only would that assistant coach would have been T'd up, he might have been ejected if he was calling me those names. The official was doing their job and do not have to put up with comments like this from any coach. THIS WAS A MIDDLE SCHOOL GAME!!!!

Peace

I was asking off subject, in general. I should have been more specific. I would imagine Refs get a reputation for their character and knowledge in this business pretty quickly and that in itself should dictate their limited future.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

Don't need to, the principal of the school was present at the game. By the same token, if the local referee assignor was present, then my "letter" should not be needed. Also, I now recognize that I overstated my intent. Really, what I want is to make sure that the assignor, or the local AD's are aware of the referee's behavior.

Question - if the ref's behavior was inappropirate or his grasp of the rules is deficient, does the assignor simply no use him/her unless absolutely necessary or do they receive some type of remediation/counseling?

You seem to be intent on pointing out the official's behavior, and what should/shouldn't be done. The part that worries us, as officials, is the fact that you are glossing over the fans' and coach's behavior, and focusing on a lower-level game and the possible mis-application of one rule. It seems to be common knowledge that fans can voice their displeasure with reckless abandon, but, boy, if he says anything back to the fans, that makes him a bad official! A coach can call the official names, but if that official screws up one rule, we need to let that assignor know about it!

Why aren't you just as passionate about fans and coach behavior? Why aren't you just as willing to contact the school administration about remedial counseling for the coach? Is that the type of teaching environment that is best for the kids? In the 200 or so games you have attended, can you say you have provided the absolute best example in fan behavior? If not, have you partaken in any of those same remedial counseling sessions?

(Scrapper - you may be right about snapping at the new posters. It must be the time of year; lack of sunshine and warm weather, tired legs from all the games, not enough time with the wife and kids, too much convenience store food, etc. But pitchers and catchers report in a week or two...)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Splute

I was asking off subject, in general. I should have been more specific. I would imagine Refs get a reputation for their character and knowledge in this business pretty quickly and that in itself should dictate their limited future.

Reputation is something that can be established rather early, but at the MIDDLE SCHOOL LEVEL chances are most can over come them.

As I stated before, MIDDLE SCHOOL GAMES are officiated by the youngest of the youngest officials or guys that are on their downward swing. In the middle are some veterans with a great reputation and officials that will never work higher than MIDDLE SCHOOL in the first place. Usually the mistakes made at the MIDDLE SCHOOL LEVEL are not something most people will pay much attention to. I could work at a MIDDLE SCHOOL GAME right now and do something and it is very likely no one will know it happen. Most officials worth anything cut their teeth on other levels and working a MIDDLE SCHOOL GAME is not the end all be all of officiating. If you want to write your little letter, do so. But also keep in mind that it might not do much of anything. Someone will take you words for what it is worth and might even ignore the letter all together. This is one MIDDLE SCHOOL GAME. And your vast watching of games are not going to make others respect your opinion over someone that actually laces it up and puts on the whistle or has put on the whistle. I like to deal with reality, not coulda, woulda, shoulda. Rant is off.

Peace

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Rant is off.

Peace

What the heck - I'm leaving mine on.

Go ahead...make my day.

[dkmz17]

Again, I'm not saying that coach's and fans don't deserve some of their own remediation, they do. But as this is an officiating forum I was asking about the referee's behavior and my current question is how does any official, if he/she has done something wrong or has a problems with knowledge of the rules, get told about it, or does he/she simply stop getting assigned games? I refereed, but never middle school or high school games. Instead I refereed city league men's and women's games and intramural college men's and women's games. In that forum, I got no feedback from anyone about my ability to call a game.

[dan74]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

Don't need to, the principal of the school was present at the game. By the same token, if the local referee assignor was present, then my "letter" should not be needed. Also, I now recognize that I overstated my intent. Really, what I want is to make sure that the assignor, or the local AD's are aware of the referee's behavior.

Question - if the ref's behavior was inappropirate or his grasp of the rules is deficient, does the assignor simply no use him/her unless absolutely necessary or do they receive some type of remediation/counseling?

Rookie official perspective...one who has coached various sports for many years and also watched my kids play:

First, the principal was in attendance, as you said. He/she, as a school official, should be the person who decides whether to notify any assignor's or other schools. Unless you're a school official or have seen this official enough times to create a history indicating improper rules interpretation and behavior, I don't think it's your place to report anything based on one incident.

Second, people make mistakes, including officials. My guess is both the official and coach reflected on the game that evening and considered whether their actions were appropriate. Most people don't like to loose their cool. Most people don't like being criticized as being incompetent or unsatisfactory. It's quite possible the coach will learn to keep from getting personal, and possible the official will strive to better learn/apply the rules, and possibly better personal management skills.

Third, as a person who in my younger years wasn't very tolerant of disrespect, without challenging the disrespect in various manners, I can somewhat identify with the official. Put yourself in his shoes. He's likely been through a year of negative comments about his ability and judgment...sounds like all of it may have come to a head. It's almost like fans feel they can be as angry as they want with an official because the official isn't going to come after them. Some coaches push it pretty far too.

Bottom line...the decision to take any action against the official is for school officials to make, and they already know. If they do, they should also take action against the coach. IMO your role with this is done...don't get any more caught up in something that isn't necessarily your concern.

By the way, I've got to go call a game...I'm not going to snap, but I might give one or two "stop signs" and "the stare."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

Again, I'm not saying that coach's and fans don't deserve some of their own remediation, they do. But as this is an officiating forum I was asking about the referee's behavior and my current question is how does any official, if he/she has done something wrong or has a problems with knowledge of the rules, get told about it, or does he/she simply stop getting assigned games?

If you are suggesting that an official that makes a rules mistake is going to be whipped over and over again (which might be fun for some) you would be wrong. Depending on who is involved, I guess people will deal with it in their own way. Some might go as far as ban them, but most will likely have a conversation or ask the official why they made a call. They might even show them the rule where they can find the situation. I would not crucify the guy. It was a mistake and if he officiates long enough he will make more mistakes. I know I have had my share. I learn from them and you move on.

Originally Posted by dkmz17

I refereed, but never middle school or high school games. Instead I refereed city league men's and women's games and intramural college men's and women's games. In that forum, I got no feedback from anyone about my ability to call a game.

One of the reasons you got no feedback, because most "real officials" want nothing to do with those games. Those games you experienced are for many (lack of a better term) is a money grab. This is not where official tends to go that are very serious about working HS or college ball.

Peace

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

Again, I'm not saying that coach's and fans don't deserve some of their own remediation, they do. But as this is an officiating forum I was asking about the referee's behavior and my current question is how does any official, if he/she has done something wrong or has a problems with knowledge of the rules, get told about it, or does he/she simply stop getting assigned games? I refereed, but never middle school or high school games. Instead I refereed city league men's and women's games and intramural college men's and women's games. In that forum, I got no feedback from anyone about my ability to call a game.

The lower the level, the less likely there will be any training, classes, feedback, etc., as you have already experienced. The higher up an official goes, the more training and feedback they get. The problem, of course, is the officials most likely to need this training and feedback are the ones doing these types of games, because, in the grand scheme of things, these games are not important and they draw the lesser-experienced and lesser-trained officials. Even if your intentions are noble, without any type of background and status in the officiating community, your opinion will be no different than the average fan. So any type of communication with the assignor, if there is one, would be essentially useless.

So, again, why wouldn't you spend the same amount of time communicating with the school administration regarding the fans' and coach's behavior?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You wanted to write a letter that will basically encourage all local schools not to use that official. Do you feel that a letter should also be written encouraging the firing of the assistant coach for his actions?

Bump....

Are you ever going to answer this question?

And if your answer is "no", please explain your logic in treating the cases differently.