Referee with "rabbit ears"

[Junker]

Yeah, it sounds like the guy wasn't the strongest on the rules or professionalism. Maybe he was new, maybe there's a reason he's working middle school games. Maybe he was cranky because he was helping out with the games because no one else could make it. But, the kid shouldn't have thrown his hands up, that's a good T. The assistant coach shouldn't be involved in the converstation, that is also a good T. I certainly agree that the official made some questionable calls from your description, but coaches and players need to learn to overcome that.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

During a recent run of middle school games, you know 7th grade G/B and the 8th grade G/B where one set of officials handle all four games, it became apparent that one of them had a bad set of what I call "rabbit ears".

In fact, during the last game (8th grade boys), he directly responded to a member of the crowd. He had made a call on a play that looked to be on the floor and when awarded 2 shots to A1, a crowd member simply yelled "he wasn't shooting" as he gave the ball to A1 for his shots. The ref then yelled back as A1 prepared to shoot, "yes, he was". Would you agree that is something that should not happen?

Later, B1 shot from the left baseline area and missed with the ball coming off to the right block area where B2 rebounded and, with one step, took the ball directly back up for a put back. The ref blows his whistle and B's fans think great, shooting foul. However, the ref then calls out "3 SECONDS" to which B2 reacts by throwing his arms out and down (the classic "WHAT") and the ref T's him. When the coach asks, "why the T?" the ref says B2 was "showing him up". The assistant coach then asks, "what was the call again?" and the ref repeats, "3 seconds" to which asst coach says "the count restarts on the rebound" and the refs responds "I know the rule!". The asst coach says "obviously not" and gets T'd. The ref repeats, after the T, "I know the rule" and the asst coach persists with "then you're a moron" and is T'd again and tossed. The asst coach then calmly starts to leave the gym (the door is on the opposite end from his bench) and the ref then starts to follow the coach.

It seems to me that most of the refs behavior was, at best excessive, and at worst downright wrong, except for the T on the "you're a moron" comment. What is the forum's opinion, as I would like to write a letter discouraging the local schools from using this particular referee for any more games?

My opinion is you're a typical fanboy. Why don't you go watch your kids play and just enjoy the game? And if you want to complain about inappropriate behavior, write a letter to the local schools about the
assistant middle school coach who calls officials "morons".

You're crapping on an official for responding to unsporting behavior and ignoring completely the people who committed the unsporting acts in the first place. Think about it.

[chartrusepengui]

No - the official should not have verbally sparred with a fan.
No - the kid should not have gestured as he did.
No - the assistant coach should not have been speaking to official.
No - the head coach should not allowed the assistant to speak with the asst.
No - the fan should not have been abrasive or unsporting in any way either.

Seems to me like everyone played a part. Sometimes we all do/say things we later regret. Doesn't mean we don't deserve a second chance! If there is a pattern - perhaps there is a real problem. However, that should be up to the AD's or assignors who set the schedule, and to veteran officials observing games. If you were a fan - stay out of it.

[dkmz17]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

My opinion is you're a typical fanboy. Why don't you go watch your kids play and just enjoy the game? And if you want to complain about inappropriate behavior, write a letter to the local schools about the
assistant middle school coach who calls officials "morons".

You're crapping on an official for responding to unsporting behavior and ignoring completely the people who committed the unsporting acts in the first place. Think about it.

I thought I said that the asst coach was properly T'd and I would agree that it was inappropriate for him to call the ref a "moron" However, in response to your "typical fanboy" comment, I could enjoy the game alot more without refs that think that once they put on a striped shirt, everything that they do is above reproach. Just because I am a fan doesn't mean I don't know the rules or can't have an reasoned opinion on what proper behavior for a ref, for a coach or for a fan should entail.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

I thought I said that the asst coach was properly T'd and I would agree that it was inappropriate for him to call the ref a "moron" However, in response to your "typical fanboy" comment, I could enjoy the game alot more without refs that think that once they put on a striped shirt, everything that they do is above reproach. Just because I am a fan doesn't mean I don't know the rules or can't have an reasoned opinion on what proper behavior for a ref, for a coach or for a fan should entail.

Calm down and be realistic, we're talking about middle school games here.

Do you think middle school games attract the best officials?

If this guy is so bad do you think you're the first to notice?

Do you think your opinion as a spectator adds to or detracts from what others already think about him?

Enjoy your kid and his games. You aint gonna fix the entire planet.

[grunewar]

[QUOTE=Dan_ref]Calm down and be realistic, we're talking about middle school games here.

Do you think middle school games attract the best officials?


As a newer ref who has done a great many 'middle school' games, I believe I have heard a heck of a lot of "constructive criticism" from the fans, players, coaches, and other refs this yr. I know this is where I need to start. I try to take it all in stride and seperate the whining from the constructive criticism as I realize I still have a lot to learn and I miss calls. It's tough though sometimes that's for sure!

[Dan_ref]

[QUOTE=grunewar]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Calm down and be realistic, we're talking about middle school games here.

Do you think middle school games attract the best officials?


As a newer ref who has done a great many 'middle school' games, I believe I have heard a heck of a lot of "constructive criticism" from the fans, players, coaches, and other refs this yr. I know this is where I need to start. I try to take it all in stride and seperate the whining from the constructive criticism as I realize I still have a lot to learn and I miss calls. It's tough though sometimes that's for sure!

Yep, we all started there and middle school has the worst coaches, players and fans of any level.

Not an easy environment for someone learning the ropes.

[Ignats75]

And, by the way, I have been a referee in the past, just not now as I have school age kids and want to spend my time watching them play ball.

This one has been knawing at me for awhile, and I just figured out what it is. This guy claims he used to be an official. I now proclaim: BULLSHIRT! No official, current or former would ever try to throw a fellow official under the bus for something as silly as what was described in the OP.

Unless this guy was part of OS's crew, he's no more an official than my 2 year old son. That makes him either a liar or someone who was drummed out of the brotherhood for some nefarious action and he has an axe to grind. i wonder which it is.

[SWMOzebra]

Maybe the official in question was slow on his 3-sec. call from the first shot....knowing the player was in the lane too long but not seeing an advantage to be gained until the shot was put up, but just slow getting air into his/her Fox and that delay allowed the rebounder to get off a quick shot.

Seems like a whole lotta "maybes" could be plugged in here as we guess at what the officials' knowledge/intentions might have been. You don't mention that the ref and his/her partner conferenced because the P might have disagreed with the 3-sec. call.

I just can't imagine voicing support for a fan to complain to an AD about any referee of any sport. You say you were an official once, then you must know how difficult the job can be at times. The mistakes made may or may not have been honest ones, but the behavior of the asst coach is unacceptable at any level.

[dkmz17]

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra

Maybe the official in question was slow on his 3-sec. call from the first shot....knowing the player was in the lane too long but not seeing an advantage to be gained until the shot was put up, but just slow getting air into his/her Fox and that delay allowed the rebounder to get off a quick shot.

Seems like a whole lotta "maybes" could be plugged in here as we guess at what the officials' knowledge/intentions might have been. You don't mention that the ref and his/her partner conferenced because the P might have disagreed with the 3-sec. call.

I just can't imagine voicing support for a fan to complain to an AD about any referee of any sport. You say you were an official once, then you must know how difficult the job can be at times. The mistakes made may or may not have been honest ones, but the behavior of the asst coach is unacceptable at any level.

The ref that made the 3 second call was on the baseline and based upon when he made the call, it did not appear to be a delayed call as it occurred after the rebounder put up the shot and appeared to get fouled. Further, there was no conference between the the referees about the call.

I guess I just wanted to vent about this ref as I have literally watched over 200 7th and 8th grade level school and AAU styles games over the last 2 years and he struck me as one of, if not the, worst. 'Nuf said

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

I guess I just wanted to vent about this ref as I have literally watched over 200 7th and 8th grade level school and AAU styles games over the last 2 years and he struck me as one of, if not the, worst.

Wow!!

You've literally watched over 200 kiddie games over the last 2 years. I take back everything that I said. You are obviously extremely qualified to evaluate officials.

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

The ref that made the 3 second call was on the baseline and based upon when he made the call, it did not appear to be a delayed call as it occurred after the rebounder put up the shot and appeared to get fouled. Further, there was no conference between the the referees about the call.

I guess I just wanted to vent about this ref as I have literally watched over 200 7th and 8th grade level school and AAU styles games over the last 2 years and he struck me as one of, if not the, worst. 'Nuf said

I don't post here very often, just checking the board a couple of times during the work day during my break. As I read the opening post, it seemed dkmz17 had something against the ref and was not really asking a question, but was more dumping on the ref - that was my impression. I concluded he was whining. This statement from page 2 validates my conclusion (again, in my opinion).

But, in the interest of fairness, I will attempt to answer his subsequent question. Refs who mess up will eventually receive the consequences for their actions. Refs gain a reputation among assignors, peers, and coaches. If the ref has a good reputation, that goes a long way in determining the types of games he/she will work. If a ref has a bad reputation, he/she could be "scratched" from certain schools and levels.

As has been pointed out, this was a middle school game. While a few top notch refs will occasionally work that level, it is usually filled with the newbies, learning the game and working their way up. It is also filled with many who have had a great career, who just don't have the wheels to work the higher level games anymore. There are also a few who are just lousy refs, only out there for a paycheck, and don't really care. Those last guys will never advance because their reputation is bad. My local chapter has all of those guys I just described.

Why are the bad rep guys still assigned games? Mainly because there is a shortage of refs everywhere and mainly because the lower level games need any ref they can find. Trust me, the assignor knows what type of official is on the game. He knows it is a newbie that might be a little shakey and not know the rules. He knows it is a ref with a bad reputation and a bad attitude. The assignor is just hoping the games will get done with no major problems. Go ahead, write your letter, "vent" to the assignor. You are not telling him anything new.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

I thought I said that the asst coach was properly T'd and I would agree that it was inappropriate for him to call the ref a "moron" However, in response to your "typical fanboy" comment, I could enjoy the game alot more without refs that think that once they put on a striped shirt, everything that they do is above reproach. Just because I am a fan doesn't mean I don't know the rules or can't have an reasoned opinion on what proper behavior for a ref, for a coach or for a fan should entail.

You know what stood out in your original post? You were hell-bent on writing a letter of complaint about the official and getting him black-balled. However, you gave absolutely no thought at all about writing a similar letter of complaint about an assistant freshman coach who calls officials names and gets thrown out of a game for his unsporting behavior. If you think that the official should be banned from officiating for his behavior, then don't you think also that it might be fair if the coach was fired for his behavior? Or does it only work one way?

As I said, think about it.

[Eastshire]

No, officials showed not verbally spar with fans. For that matter fans shouldn't verbal spar with officials either, but what are you going to do?

From your description, it would appear that the 3 second call was in error. All of the T's seem deserved. An official making a mistake does not give anyone carte blanche to be unsportsmanlike.

I don't see anything here particularly important other than a tired official at the end of a long day.