Referee with "rabbit ears"

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If a person comes here in here with a legitimate question about rules application he shouldn't be criticized for asking the question just b/c he's only coaching Freshman basketball.

I agree.

However, if you have a fanboy that comes in here and wants to have an official removed from all the middle school games in all the schools in his area because he didn't like the way that official handled a situation where an assistant coach coach called him a "moron", then I really don't see how what you said above can apply in any way to that situation. And I also can't understand how you could possibly try to apply the same logic to a high school freshman coach that admits that he will deliberately crap on an official for absolutely no reason other than the fact that wants to fire his kids up. These goobers just get the answers that they deserve imo.

[dave30]

I wish I had one dollar for every fan that said "I used to be a referee!" I always ask, "what chapter?"........they fumble around with that one most of the time!

JRutledge, I have to disagree with you a little bit. I know there are some young, inexperienced, refs in middle school ball, but there are some good ones as well. I know plenty of guys who work a varsity schedule, a couple who do some college ball, who still work some middle school games on occasion. Some people really like the kids. I do for the most part, although my middle school games are now few and far between. I still like to do elementary kid's games too. Also, there are plenty of guys and gals who work nights and can only do earlier games such as middle school or Freshman or JV even though they referee at a high level.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by dave30

I wish I had one dollar for every fan that said "I used to be a referee!" I always ask, "what chapter?"........they fumble around with that one most of the time!

JRutledge, I have to disagree with you a little bit. I know there are some young, inexperienced, refs in middle school ball, but there are some good ones as well. I know plenty of guys who work a varsity schedule, a couple who do some college ball, who still work some middle school games on occasion. Some people really like the kids. I do for the most part, although my middle school games are now few and far between. I still like to do elementary kid's games too. Also, there are plenty of guys and gals who work nights and can only do earlier games such as middle school or Freshman or JV even though they referee at a high level.

You need to take things in context. I did not say there were absolutely no officials of any experience or other levels that work any lower level. If you can find the quotes, show them to me. Because I did not say no one of any experience level works them. I have said in this post and many others that most often you have the most inexperienced officials to the guys who will never get past this love working them. If you have not noticed, often when someone comes here with a story about how an official screwed up a rule or acted in an unprofessional way, these levels are often highlighted.

I did not ask you for personal anecdotes of what you and a couple of people you know might do every once in a while. I have worked freshman, JV and sophomore games this season as well. I have a JV game on Monday. Three times I worked with guys that were veterans that had more experience than me and worked post-season games in the past. One of those times we were called at the last minute to fill a date and we both happened to be open. I am not sure what you are disagreeing with.

Peace

[Ignats75]

I think we just found Mr Annoying Spelling Guy Jr.

Actually, when I wrote that last night, I kept looking at it and telling myself something wasn't right. But I had just gotten home from doing a basketball game and I was tired, and obviously aggravated by the post so I just said screw it and posted it. Thanks for the correction. I should've known better.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I think we just found Mr Annoying Spelling Guy Jr.

But I had just gotten home from doing a basketball game and I was tired, and boviously aggravated by the post so I just said screw it and posted it.

"Boviously aggravated" means that a cow stepped on your foot or sh!t in the back seat of your Volkswagen. Or sumthin' like that.

Just saying.....

Signed: Mr. Annoying Spelling Guy Very Senior.

[Ignats75]

grrr, my fingers are faster than my brain...shut up. I'll fix that typo.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And I also can't understand how you could possibly try to apply the same logic to a high school freshman coach that admits that he will deliberately crap on an official for absolutely no reason other than the fact that wants to fire his kids up. These goobers just get the answers that they deserve imo.

Guess this is where we disagree. I don't view it is as crapping on an official for a coach to deliberately get an unsporting technical. To me it's just a coach being a coach. Some are nice, some are a$$-hole by nature, some are a$$-holes by design, some are a$$-holes at selective moments, and some turn to being an a$$-hole when the pressure becomes too much to bear. No different than all the personalities I have to deal with in the military since I was 18 years old.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Guess this is where we disagree. I don't view it is as crapping on an official for a coach to deliberately get an unsporting technical.

Yup, we sureasheck do disagree on that one. Big time.

That goober admitted that he deliberately told an official that he was terrible with the sole purpose being to motivate his kids. Whether the official was actually terrible or not had no bearing in any way on the coach's actions. And this is coming from a freshman high school coach too. Well, if you think that it's perfectly OK for a coach to deliberately disparage an official like that, and that's acceptable behavior on the coach's part also, then I think that you should take up coaching too, News.

If you think that basically telling an official that he sucks isn't crapping on that official, what exactly would you call it?

[Ignats75]

Sheesh, I'm gonna start to get the reputation that I'm your caddy, I agree with you so much Jurassic.

My question is, what does it teach those freshmen? Does it teach them to respect the authority of the official? Or does it teach them to think we are all idiots out to job them?

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

The ref that made the 3 second call was on the baseline and based upon when he made the call, it did not appear to be a delayed call as it occurred after the rebounder put up the shot and appeared to get fouled. Further, there was no conference between the the referees about the call.

I guess I just wanted to vent about this ref as I have literally watched over 200 7th and 8th grade level school and AAU styles games over the last 2 years and he struck me as one of, if not the, worst. 'Nuf said

I don't post here very often, just checking the board a couple of times during the work day during my break. As I read the opening post, it seemed dkmz17 had something against the ref and was not really asking a question, but was more dumping on the ref - that was my impression. I concluded he was whining. This statement from page 2 validates my conclusion (again, in my opinion).

But, in the interest of fairness, I will attempt to answer his subsequent question. Refs who mess up will eventually receive the consequences for their actions. Refs gain a reputation among assignors, peers, and coaches. If the ref has a good reputation, that goes a long way in determining the types of games he/she will work. If a ref has a bad reputation, he/she could be "scratched" from certain schools and levels.

As has been pointed out, this was a middle school game. While a few top notch refs will occasionally work that level, it is usually filled with the newbies, learning the game and working their way up. It is also filled with many who have had a great career, who just don't have the wheels to work the higher level games anymore. There are also a few who are just lousy refs, only out there for a paycheck, and don't really care. Those last guys will never advance because their reputation is bad. My local chapter has all of those guys I just described.

Why are the bad rep guys still assigned games? Mainly because there is a shortage of refs everywhere and mainly because the lower level games need any ref they can find. Trust me, the assignor knows what type of official is on the game. He knows it is a newbie that might be a little shakey and not know the rules. He knows it is a ref with a bad reputation and a bad attitude. The assignor is just hoping the games will get done with no major problems. Go ahead, write your letter, "vent" to the assignor. You are not telling him anything new.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

As has been pointed out, this was a middle school game. While a few top notch refs will occasionally work that level, it is usually filled with the newbies, learning the game and working their way up.

I sometimes use this analogy when speaking to youth coaches / parents (that is, coaches and parents of youth teams):

Compare the level of play in this game / league with the level of play in Major League Baseball / Duke v. NC, etc. Now compare the level of officiating with that in (the above reference). Just as the players are learning and will make more mistakes, so are the officials.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

What coaching forum can we go to and see your post, asking who to contact about the coach's actions?

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Wondered when that question was going to get asked. You could refer him to the nfhs.org site to post on the coaches site. Oh. I guess I just did. Looking forward to your post, dmz.

26, I guess we'll never know.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Sheesh, I'm gonna start to get the reputation that I'm your caddy, I agree with you so much Jurassic.

My question is, what does it teach those freshmen? Does it teach them to respect the authority of the official? Or does it teach them to think we are all idiots out to job them?

It lets them think they can get away with being obnoxious jerks, like the two kids from the visiting team I whacked in a JV boys game last night.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If you think that basically telling an official that he sucks isn't crapping on that official, what exactly would you call it?

I call it an unsporting techincal foul. I don't take it personally.

Well, if you think that it's perfectly OK for a coach to deliberately disparage an official like that, and that's acceptable behavior on the coach's part also, then I think that you should take up coaching too, News.

Why, because I don't agree with you? When did I said it was ok? I have said multiple times, I call the T and move on. Because I don't take great personal offense to it means I should be a coach instead of an official?

Originally Posted by Ignats

My question is, what does it teach those freshmen? Does it teach them to respect the authority of the official? Or does it teach them to think we are all idiots out to job them?

Are we officials or are we teachers? Coaches have bosses--AD's, principals, school board. If a coach is that terrible they'll eventually answer to the appropriate powers that be. Don't these kids have parents and guardians who should be concerned with the behavior of their coach? If that is an official's major concern then maybe the official should turn to coaching.