Referee with "rabbit ears"

[dkmz17]

During a recent run of middle school games, you know 7th grade G/B and the 8th grade G/B where one set of officials handle all four games, it became apparent that one of them had a bad set of what I call "rabbit ears".

In fact, during the last game (8th grade boys), he directly responded to a member of the crowd. He had made a call on a play that looked to be on the floor and when awarded 2 shots to A1, a crowd member simply yelled "he wasn't shooting" as he gave the ball to A1 for his shots. The ref then yelled back as A1 prepared to shoot, "yes, he was". Would you agree that is something that should not happen?

Later, B1 shot from the left baseline area and missed with the ball coming off to the right block area where B2 rebounded and, with one step, took the ball directly back up for a put back. The ref blows his whistle and B's fans think great, shooting foul. However, the ref then calls out "3 SECONDS" to which B2 reacts by throwing his arms out and down (the classic "WHAT") and the ref T's him. When the coach asks, "why the T?" the ref says B2 was "showing him up". The assistant coach then asks, "what was the call again?" and the ref repeats, "3 seconds" to which asst coach says "the count restarts on the rebound" and the refs responds "I know the rule!". The asst coach says "obviously not" and gets T'd. The ref repeats, after the T, "I know the rule" and the asst coach persists with "then you're a moron" and is T'd again and tossed. The asst coach then calmly starts to leave the gym (the door is on the opposite end from his bench) and the ref then starts to follow the coach.

It seems to me that most of the refs behavior was, at best excessive, and at worst downright wrong, except for the T on the "you're a moron" comment. What is the forum's opinion, as I would like to write a letter discouraging the local schools from using this particular referee for any more games?

[Raymond]

(no sarcasm or condesencion intended).

I'm not saying the ref was right or wrong. Just wondering why you think the school will heed your advice not to hire the ref for more games.

[NewNCref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

(no sarcasm or condesencion intended).

I'm not saying the ref was right or wrong. Just wondering why you think the school will heed your advice not to hire the ref for more games.

I think what BadNewsRef is getting at (and something I'm curious about to) is what your connection to this game was (though I could be wrong). For example, if you're the AD at the school, then they certainly might listen to you. If you're just a spectator, then you probably won't have much luck.

[dkmz17]

I would think that if enough people complained about his conduct that it would get a athletic director's attention. Just because someone may not be affliated with the school doesn't mean that their opinion should be ignored. I'm not complaining that he cost either team the game, but I really think his conduct was inapropriate.

And, by the way, I have been a referee in the past, just not now as I have school age kids and want to spend my time watching them play ball.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

I would think that if enough people complained about his conduct that it would get a athletic director's attention. Just because someone may not be affliated with the school doesn't mean that their opinion should be ignored. I'm not complaining that he cost either team the game, but I really think his conduct was inapropriate.

And, by the way, I have been a referee in the past, just not now as I have school age kids and want to spend my time watching them play ball.

Contact the referees assoc. you belong to and report the official. While your at it, don't forget to contact the school and report the coach. No official will be perfect, and a misapplication of the rule doesn't justifies the coaches actions. The coach was a bad example and should get the same treatment as the official.

If you don't report both, you are no better than either of them, imo.

[Ref in PA]

Asking us to judge the actions of a referee at a game where we were not at is not going to get you very many valid responses. We only have one side of the story.

Also be advised that on the lower level games you will have newer refs. Becoming a good ref usually takes years of experience and years of experience does not necessarily translate into a good ref.

If you have a rules question, then ask it. If you want to whine about a ref, do it someplace else. This is not the forum to whine.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

Asking us to judge the actions of a referee at a game where we were not at is not going to get you very many valid responses. We only have one side of the story.

Also be advised that on the lower level games you will have newer refs. Becoming a good ref usually takes years of experience and years of experience does not necessarily translate into a good ref.

If you have a rules question, then ask it. If you want to whine about a ref, do it someplace else. This is not the forum to whine.

Well said by the way. I doubt if any action will take place at the middle school level. In most areas they are just glad to have someone willing to be on the floor.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

If you have a rules question, then ask it. If you want to whine about a ref, do it someplace else. This is not the forum to whine.

Why are we so quick to jump on new posters in the forum lately? I'm truly baffled.

As JRut has very correctly pointed out in another recent thread, there's a whole lot more to officiating than the rules. If (and that's a big if, since we only have one side of the story) this official behaved the way it is described, what should be done about it? That's a legitimate question. There's no reason to lash out at this person.

My own suggestion would be to contact the official's association (since you may have past relationships there), rather than the schools themselves. Or if you feel really strongly, I guess you could do both. But by contacting the association, you might get the official some training. Maybe. Maybe not.

Realistically, your complaint will have no effect. As some others have indicated, your comments will probably not influence the AD and the official himself will probably dismiss you as a know-nothing. Additionally, the official's assignor may already know about his problems, but uses him anyway just because he needs to bodies out on the floor to cover games.

Your best bet is to simply forget it as a bad experience, and take comfort in the fact that the official will never get to a varsity game without some additional improvement.

[Ignats75]

Philosophically, I have a real problem with anyone that was in the crowd having any input into the rating or disciplining an official. Thats a mighty big Camel with a mighty big nose, to let into our tent. Its way worse than the coaches who vote for referees for tourney games.

I gotta agree with my dinosaur friend. You are coming across as a typical fan who has an axe to grind just because you didn't like the outcome of a game. Unfair? Maybe. But allowing fans to have some sort of authority over officials is scary. If you think referees are substandard, grab a whistle and improve the referee pool in your area. OTherwise, sit down, watch the game and STFU!

Uh-OH. F U February may have just kicked in for me.

[dkmz17]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Philosophically, I have a real problem with anyone that was in the crowd having any input into the rating or disciplining an official. Thats a mighty big Camel with a mighty big nose, to let into our tent. Its way worse than the coaches who vote for referees for tourney games.

I gotta agree with my dinosaur friend. You are coming across as a typical fan who has an axe to grind just because you didn't like the outcome of a game. Unfair? Maybe. But allowing fans to have some sort of authority over officials is scary. If you think referees are substandard, grab a whistle and improve the referee pool in your area. OTherwise, sit down, watch the game and STFU!

Uh-OH. F U February may have just kicked in for me.

As said earlier, I have done that in the past. If I do it again, does that mean I have the right to complain, but not until then? Ok, I am done with this issue now, sorry, I will confine my posts from now on to strict rules questions.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Why are we so quick to jump on new posters in the forum lately? I'm truly baffled.

Unless they are only coaching Freshman basketball, then it's alright.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Unless they are only coaching Freshman basketball, then it's alright.

Honestly I would say the same thing. All games should be kept in perspective. Anything below the varsity level should be purely fun for all participants. It is not to judge everyone on some unattainable level because some fan was upset who never has officiated a "real game" in his life.

Peace

[dkmz17]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

Asking us to judge the actions of a referee at a game where we were not at is not going to get you very many valid responses. We only have one side of the story.

Also be advised that on the lower level games you will have newer refs. Becoming a good ref usually takes years of experience and years of experience does not necessarily translate into a good ref.

If you have a rules question, then ask it. If you want to whine about a ref, do it someplace else. This is not the forum to whine.

Thought I gave the whole story, not just one side. I didn't have anything vested in the outcome, just watching a ballgame.

The question really was if an experienced referee agreed that it was inappropriate for a referee of any level to "talk back" or argue with the crowd and if it was equally inappropriate to pursue a coach that is properly leaving the gym after being tossed.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

Thought I gave the whole story, not just one side. I didn't have anything vested in the outcome, just watching a ballgame.

The question really was if an experienced referee agreed that it was inappropriate for a referee of any level to "talk back" or argue with the crowd and if it was equally inappropriate to pursue a coach that is properly leaving the gym after being tossed.

I would say in most cases an official does not benefit in any way by talking to the crowd. But there are exceptions to anything. Part of this would depend on your stature as an official and knowing your environment and many factors that will never be discussed here. But as a general rule, an official should just leave the fans alone because you will not come out looking good.

Peace

[cmckenna]

Still waiting for the answer.... are you writing a letter about the ASSistatnt coach????