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Old Tue Feb 06, 2007, 10:09pm
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Time to foul

I don't know about y'all, but when I know a team is in a sitch where they need to foul, I tend to get real quick with the whistle. I hate to see a team keep whacking and grabbing and not get the ref's attention. I was watching a girl's JV game like that tonight. Team B was down 3 with a minute and a half left, and only 3 fouls on the board. It was obvious they were trying to foul, but apparently they weren't getting 'enough' contact in the officials' viewpoint.

Then B1 puts her hand right between the numbers on the back of A1 after she dribbled past and gave her a push. Obviously not a play at the ball, right? Do you have an intentional when you see that push in the back? I think I would, but it wasn't called so I was wondering what others thought.
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Old Tue Feb 06, 2007, 10:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mplagrow
Then B1 puts her hand right between the numbers on the back of A1 after she dribbled past and gave her a push. Obviously not a play at the ball, right? Do you have an intentional when you see that push in the back? I think I would, but it wasn't called so I was wondering what others thought.
You could use this example in a video about intentional fouls. Why even ask?
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Old Tue Feb 06, 2007, 10:17pm
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Well, the reason I ask is that it is so obviously an intentional foul--yet I still see officials who are afraid to call it that. I guess that's why they were in the JV game.
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Old Tue Feb 06, 2007, 10:17pm
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I'm with you as far as using a quick whistle during a fouling situation. I tend to think it prevents problems rather than make the fouling team push or hack very hard. It also keeps you away from having to make the intentional call when they have tried twice already to get a foul and neither of them were called.
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Old Wed Feb 07, 2007, 12:08am
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If you have a quick whistle during "fouling situation" are you calling the game consistently? Are you calling more touch fouls than earlier in the game? I don't know if I agree with the concept but have seen it done.
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Old Wed Feb 07, 2007, 12:19am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAREF
If you have a quick whistle during "fouling situation" are you calling the game consistently? Are you calling more touch fouls than earlier in the game? I don't know if I agree with the concept but have seen it done.
When the situation calls for it and it's obvious, call it. Otherwise they'll make sure you call it by using the shove in the back or worse.
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Old Wed Feb 07, 2007, 12:37am
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Isn't this a POE this year?? Call the intentional foul!
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Old Wed Feb 07, 2007, 03:49am
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They still have to earn the foul

I have seen just the opposite. When a team needs to foul, the other team, tries to pass around before the defense can get to them. so, many times the fouls are minor contact against the person who no longer has the ball. In these cases, I don't want to reward the defense for making bad plays by giving them the foul, stopping the clock, and perhaps able to make a play later.

Having said that, if the contact is more than just minor, then I call it.
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Old Wed Feb 07, 2007, 05:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mplagrow
I don't know about y'all, but when I know a team is in a sitch where they need to foul, I tend to get real quick with the whistle. I hate to see a team keep whacking and grabbing and not get the ref's attention. I was watching a girl's JV game like that tonight. Team B was down 3 with a minute and a half left, and only 3 fouls on the board. It was obvious they were trying to foul, but apparently they weren't getting 'enough' contact in the officials' viewpoint.

Then B1 puts her hand right between the numbers on the back of A1 after she dribbled past and gave her a push. Obviously not a play at the ball, right? Do you have an intentional when you see that push in the back? I think I would, but it wasn't called so I was wondering what others thought.
This is exactly what happened in the Nevada/Hawaii game on this past Saturday. Perhaps you should ask that officiating crew. (BTW does this make them GJV officials! )

Nevada/Hawaii Game Today

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAREF
If you have a quick whistle during "fouling situation" are you calling the game consistently? Are you calling more touch fouls than earlier in the game? I don't know if I agree with the concept but have seen it done.
Great comment. The NFHS said this in one of its POEs this year.
2006-07 POINTS OF EMPHASIS
5. Rules Enforcement and Proper Use of Signals.
A. Rules Enforcement.
Contact Contact that is not considered a foul early in the game should not be considered a foul late in the game simply because a team "wants" to foul. Conversely, contact that is deemed intentional late in the game should likewise be called intentional early in the game.
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Old Wed Feb 07, 2007, 08:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian
I have seen just the opposite. When a team needs to foul, the other team, tries to pass around before the defense can get to them. so, many times the fouls are minor contact against the person who no longer has the ball. In these cases, I don't want to reward the defense for making bad plays by giving them the foul, stopping the clock, and perhaps able to make a play later.

Having said that, if the contact is more than just minor, then I call it.
Sometimes, Team A plays "keep away." Here, I try to call the game as we've called it all night.

Sometimes, Team A gets the ball to the best FT shooter and waits for the foul. Here, I try to call the first contact.
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Old Wed Feb 07, 2007, 09:05am
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I use common sense. A novel approach I guess. When the game is winding down and the trailing team calls time out, you can bet the coach isn't asking where the after-game party is going to be. That's when my partner(s) and I get together to make sure we are ready for this volatile time in the game. "Get the first foul, but make sure its a foul. Non calling official needs to ID the shooter right away but freeze and make sure no funny business is going on. Don't let the game get out of hand."
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Old Wed Feb 07, 2007, 03:41pm
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Interesting sitch last night on this.

Team A (home team) get a 1 point lead with 8 seconds to play. They have 5 team fouls. During the timeout, we get together and decide they will foul to keep team B from having a lot of time to setup a last shot. They come out of the timeout and two different players inform us that they will be fouling. I just said to make a play for the ball.

Team B takes the ball in, rushes to half court where team A is going to foul. Just as I at C am about to call the first contact for a foul, Team B's coach is asking for a timeout. So, may partner granted it as he was asking before the fould occurred. Bad move. Now there is only 5 seconds and team A still has a fould to give. Had he waited, he would have had the foul first.

Now, they inbound, team A fouls and there is 3 seconds left. They inbound, get a good look at a 3 pointer, but it misses.

Good game.
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Old Wed Feb 07, 2007, 04:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian
Team A (home team) get a 1 point lead with 8 seconds to play. They have 5 team fouls. During the timeout, we get together and decide they will foul to keep team B from having a lot of time to setup a last shot. They come out of the timeout and two different players inform us that they will be fouling. I just said to make a play for the ball.

Team B takes the ball in, rushes to half court where team A is going to foul. Just as I at C am about to call the first contact for a foul, Team B's coach is asking for a timeout. So, may partner granted it as he was asking before the fould occurred. Bad move. Now there is only 5 seconds and team A still has a fould to give. Had he waited, he would have had the foul first.

Now, they inbound, team A fouls and there is 3 seconds left. They inbound, get a good look at a 3 pointer, but it misses.

Good game.
I'm just stirring the pot here, but if a player tells you they are going to foul, isn't that intentional? They are fouling to take away an opponents obvious advantageous position. Remember, I'm just stirring the pot here.
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Old Wed Feb 07, 2007, 04:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian
I have seen just the opposite. When a team needs to foul, the other team, tries to pass around before the defense can get to them. so, many times the fouls are minor contact against the person who no longer has the ball. In these cases, I don't want to reward the defense for making bad plays by giving them the foul, stopping the clock, and perhaps able to make a play later.

Having said that, if the contact is more than just minor, then I call it.
There are officials, including me depending on the tone of the game, that will make sure you get the first contact in a fouling situation because if you don't, the second will be harder and more dangerous. When my crew is in a situation like this, during a dead ball, we always talk about getting the first foul, but remembering that there has to be contact to be called.
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Old Wed Feb 07, 2007, 04:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junker
I'm just stirring the pot here, but if a player tells you they are going to foul, isn't that intentional? They are fouling to take away an opponents obvious advantageous position. Remember, I'm just stirring the pot here.
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