Time to foul

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Never throw away your old rule books. See POE #3B-from last years rulebook.

Nevada can cut'n'paste it for everybody sometime.

Can you give the gist of the rule for me since I don't have a rulebook?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Damian

Team B takes the ball in, rushes to half court where team A is going to foul. Just as I at C am about to call the first contact for a foul, Team B's coach is asking for a timeout. So, may partner granted it as he was asking before the fould occurred. Bad move.

If the timeout request happened first, then that's what should be called first. It's not a "bad" move. It's the "proper" move. Your job is to call the game as it happens, not manipulate it to make it move in a certain way. If you do this, then the players truly determine the outcome of the game and that is how it should be.

[BillyMac]

From my "Long Version (Working With A Rookie)" Pregame:

Last Two Minutes
Near the end of the game, be aware of coaches calling time-outs and be sure to inform them after they have used all their time outs.
We’re not calling anything in the last two minutes if we haven’t already called it earlier in the game, unless it’s so blatant that it can’t be ignored. We don’t want our first illegal screen to be called with 30 seconds left in the game; but if the illegal screen puts a player into the first row of the bleachers, then we have to call it.
Let’s not put the whistles away in the last two minutes: That wouldn’t be consistent with the way we’ve been calling the game. If the game dictates it, let the players win or lose the game at the line. We don’t want to be the ones who decide the game by ignoring obvious fouls just to get the game over.
End of game strategic fouls: If the winning team is just holding the ball and is willing to take the free throws, then let’s call the foul immediately, so the ballhandler doesn’t get hit harder to draw a whistle. Let’s make sure there is a play on the ball by the defense. If there’s no play on the ball, if the defense grabs the jersey from behind, or if the ballhandler receives a bear hug, we should consider an intentional foul. These are not basketball plays and should be penalized as intentional.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Can you give the gist of the rule for me since I don't have a rulebook?

For you?

No.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

We’re not calling anything in the last two minutes if we haven’t already called it earlier in the game, unless it’s so blatant that it can’t be ignored. We don’t want our first illegal screen to be called with 30 seconds left in the game; but if the illegal screen puts a player into the first row of the bleachers, then we have to call it.

Am I the only one who sees a dichotomy here? In fact, I see two.

[26 Year Gap]

They sell them on EBay. Just got the 1960-61 book a few days ago. Once I get to the changes I will pass them along for you fiasco.

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Am I the only one who sees a dichotomy here? In fact, I see two.

Wouldn't that be a bidichotomy?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Never throw away your old rule books. See POE #3B-from last years rulebook.

Nevada can cut'n'paste it for everybody sometime.

B. Late in the game. Fouling is an accepted coaching strategy and is utilized by nearly all coaches in some form. It is viewed as a chance for a team behind in the score to get back in the game while the clock is stopped. There is widespread belief that it works or it wouldn't be coached.
There is a right way and a wrong way to foul. Coaches must instruct their players in the proper technique for strategic fouling. "Going for the ball" is a common phrase heard, but intentional fouls should still be called on players who go for the ball if it is not done properly. Conversely, a coach who yells, "Foul!" instructions to his or her team does not mean the ensuing foul is "automatically" an intentional foul – even though it is a strategic foul designed to stop the clock. Coaches, officials, players, fans and administrators must accept fouling as a legitimate coaching strategy.
With that, officials must have the courage to enforce the intentional foul rule. Far too often, officials do not whistle fouls as intentional when the act clearly meets the criteria. Officiating philosophies should not change because of the time remaining in the game or the score differential. The correct call should be made – not the popular one.

[dblref]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Can you give the gist of the rule for me since I don't have a rulebook?

That's obvious from your posts. Maybe Old School could cut & paste it for you. No, wait, s/he doesn't own one either.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Am I the only one who sees a dichotomy here? In fact, I see two.

I don't see it. Are you saying there's a contradiction in saying that if we haven't called it in the first 30 minutes, or whatever, we're not calling something unless it's obvious to everybody?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I don't see it. Are you saying there's a contradiction in saying that if we haven't called it in the first 30 minutes, or whatever, we're not calling something unless it's obvious to everybody?

This doesn't change whether you called it earlier in the game or not. If it's "obvious to everyone" that it's a foul, then hopefully you called it earlier in the game, and you'd still be consistent by calling it late in the game.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

B. Late in the game. Fouling is an accepted coaching strategy and is utilized by nearly all coaches in some form. It is viewed as a chance for a team behind in the score to get back in the game while the clock is stopped. There is widespread belief that it works or it wouldn't be coached.
There is a right way and a wrong way to foul. Coaches must instruct their players in the proper technique for strategic fouling. "Going for the ball" is a common phrase heard, but intentional fouls should still be called on players who go for the ball if it is not done properly. Conversely, a coach who yells, "Foul!" instructions to his or her team does not mean the ensuing foul is "automatically" an intentional foul – even though it is a strategic foul designed to stop the clock. Coaches, officials, players, fans and administrators must accept fouling as a legitimate coaching strategy.
With that, officials must have the courage to enforce the intentional foul rule. Far too often, officials do not whistle fouls as intentional when the act clearly meets the criteria. Officiating philosophies should not change because of the time remaining in the game or the score differential. The correct call should be made – not the popular one.

Thanks, Nevada.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

This doesn't change whether you called it earlier in the game or not. If it's "obvious to everyone" that it's a foul, then hopefully you called it earlier in the game, and you'd still be consistent by calling it late in the game.

But the converse is not true. We might call something that is NOT obvious to everyone earlier in the game, for a number of reasons. At the end of the game, though, if we haven't already called something throughout the whole game, then it better be obvious to everybody why we're calling it.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

This doesn't change whether you called it earlier in the game or not. If it's "obvious to everyone" that it's a foul, then hopefully you called it earlier in the game, and you'd still be consistent by calling it late in the game.

That's not really the point.

End of game fouls ARE obvious to everyone because the fouling player WANTS it to be obvious to everyone. So it gets called.

Rarely the case outside of the last minute or so of the game.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

This doesn't change whether you called it earlier in the game or not. If it's "obvious to everyone" that it's a foul, then hopefully you called it earlier in the game, and you'd still be consistent by calling it late in the game.

The point is that the situation may not have occured earlier in the game.

If something entirely new happens in the last 2 minutes, make sure it needs to be called before blowing the whistle.