T on Coach with 10 seconds left

[hbioteach]

Preface the situation, worst game in 10 years of officiating.
2 player technicals for aguing calls one for A and one for B.
Coach of B gets indirect technical for player technical called after sub was made.
Assistant coach of A double T and ejected for coming onto the court, auguing call, and cursing at partner.
2 intentional fouls called on players (one on A and one on B).

I was the R and tried to talk to the remaining coaches and players about trying to just play basketball the last 5 minutes and remind both coaches that must stay in their seats for the rest of the game.

Coach A after being warned 2x to be seated after receiving indirect T, is given T by me with 10 seconds left for standing and coaching while A has the ball down by 2.

Should I just have ignored the coach?

[deecee]

tough one -- he was coaching -- i might have let this go as it is 10 seconds left and grated hes not standing to show pleasure for an outstanding play -- its 10 seconds of a lot of instruction depending on the level. but you did warn him -- judgement here and I would not call the T from what you describe.

now if he was an azz the whole game then no way -- but he probably would have gotten a T earlier and been ejected anyway because of the 3 T's he would have earned no?

[Mark Padgett]

Give him the T, stare at his pants then puke on his shoes.

Seriously, if you don't give the T, you lose credibility for all the other calls.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

tough one -- he was coaching -- i might have let this go as it is 10 seconds left and grated hes not standing to show pleasure for an outstanding play -- its 10 seconds of a lot of instruction depending on the level. but you did warn him -- judgement here and I would not call the T from what you describe.

now if he was an azz the whole game then no way -- but he probably would have gotten a T earlier and been ejected anyway because of the 3 T's he would have earned no?

Sigh.

Here's our friend deecee again showing his youth and lack of backbone. Despite numerous, direct statements from the NFHS, he still thinks that he knows better than all those other people on how to handle the coaching box situations. If you wish to continue to do it your own way, do us all a favor, keep it to yourself, and please stop answering any questions to do with the coaching box. You simply don't do it the right way according to the NFHS.

2005-06 POINTS OF EMPHASIS
1. Sporting Behavior.

D. Coaching box: The committee wants coaches to stay in the coaching box. There is a constant problem when coaches wander. It is a distinct advantage to the coach who is permitted to be out of the box because the coach has a better chance to communicate with his/her team. The coach can also influence play by being out on the court.
The rule is black-and-white, but it has not been dealt with properly. Most officials have not enforced the rule. The fact that the coach is not directing comments to the officials or is "coaching the team" has no bearing on rule enforcement. The coach who continually abuses the coaching-box rule risks having his or her governing body remove it completely. The official who doesn't enforce it runs the risk of not following what the governing body wants enforced.
Once the coaching box has been removed because of a technical foul, all related rules restrictions must apply. There's no way to get the box back after the privilege has been lost.
Assistant coaches must be seated at all times except during time-outs, to attend to an injured player after being beckoned and to spontaneously react to a play. The rules that permit a head coach to rise in certain situations (time-outs, confer with table personnel for a correctable error, dealing with disqualifications) do not apply to assistant coaches under any circumstances. Again, the fact that an assistant coach is "only coaching" has no bearing on the rule or enforcement.
Head coaches have the responsibility to remain in the box. School administrators must support that by demanding their coaches do so. When violated, the official must enforce the rule with a technical foul.

[deecee]

thanks nevada for pointing out what the Assistant coach can and cannot do -- which has as much bearing to this question regarding the HC as mudflaps have at a basketball game -- but good catch though very nice.

I would say that the HC standing in these last 10 seconds are an indirect result of an outstanding play -- once the buzzer sounds he can sit back down if he wants -- but 10 seconds go by in a hurry. common sense here 10 seconds for a last shot -- from what was described i am not calling the T -- thats me you can go ahead and call it you are supported by the rules but thanks for pointing out again what the assistants can and cant do. very enlightning.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by hbioteach

Coach A after being warned 2x to be seated after receiving indirect T, is given T by me with 10 seconds left for standing and coaching while A has the ball down by 2.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The fact that the coach is not directing comments to the officials or is "coaching the team" has no bearing on rule enforcement.
...Once the coaching box has been removed because of a technical foul, all related rules restrictions must apply. There's no way to get the box back after the privilege has been lost.

Obviously, you missed those parts even though I put them in bold for you.

The assistant coach sentences are in a different color and do apply because the OP also involves assistant coaches.

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by hbioteach

Coach A after being warned 2x to be seated after receiving indirect T, is given T by me with 10 seconds left for standing and coaching while A has the ball down by 2.

Should I just have ignored the coach?

T after the first warning. Once you gave him a 2nd, he thinks he will be warned for the rest of the game. Better yet, don't give a warning because you already told him he had to be seated for the rest of the game because of the indirect.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by hbioteach

Coach A after being warned 2x to be seated after receiving indirect T, is given T by me with 10 seconds left for standing and coaching while A has the ball down by 2.

Should I just have ignored the coach?

Two warnings is one too many. Other than that, just fuggedaboutit. All you did was react to all of the unsporting acts being committed, and that's your job. The coaches/players were the ones that caused all the crap. There's not much else you can do in a game like that. You have to maintain control, no matter what, and it sounds like you did just that. Don't second guess yourself; move on.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Two warnings is one too many.......

I agree, especially since you already reminded them both about the seat belt with 5 minutes remaining.

[AFHusker]

I had a situation in a BJV game this year. A up by 15, A1 fouls B1 with 3 secs left. As I'm heading to administer the FT after reporting the foul, a team member from B asked "why didn't you call those when it f&$#ing mattered?" Wack. B's varsity coach was behind the table, I don't think he heard what was said, says that's a rookie call in a game like that. After the game I go visit with the varsity crew before their game (as I usually do) and ask their opinion. I was told -- where do you draw the line? Is it at 5 seconds? 10 seconds? The answer is you can't draw the line.

[bgtg19]

hbioteach, should you have ignored him? Only you can say for sure. I'm inclined to respect your judgment. For purposes of evaluating and thinking about future cases, I'll echo what others have either said or implied. It is *really* tough to T a coach in that spot, especially if you have not assessed the T for similar behavior previously. However, this coach IS gaining an advantage that s/he is not supposed to have, so I do recognize and applaud your willingness to take away the advantage.... The main lesson, I think, is to see if you can figure out a way to deal with behavior like this at a time in the game which is not in the last 10 seconds of the game. Sometimes, officials have no choice ... here it sounds like there may have been some choices available. Good luck.

[Old School]

Although I agree with everything said here. There is something else to consider imo.
#1.) you got 10 seconds left to go in the game.
#2.) you got a close game, possible game winning shot situation.
#3.) you got the action on the floor you need to deal with now.

You've dealt with this bad situation and now you got 10 seconds left. It's downhill from here baby. 10 more seconds and I'm out of here. I don't have to look or deal with you folks anymore. I'm focusing down on the game, last second shot procedures, who's got the clock, let the players decide. Hopefully no overtime. Go home afterwards.

I'm going to go against the grain and recommend this for the next time. Others may say this is bad advise but I'm going to teach you some survivor skills. Take point #3 above, with 10 seconds left, don't look at the coach unless he says something to you, watch the action on the floor, 3, 2, 1, game over, go home. One more thing, since you know the coach is standing after you told him he couldn't, his player just might not get the call he needs, should there be a lot of contact on the last play, if you know what I mean.

[bgtg19]

Originally Posted by AFHusker

[A] team member from B asked "why didn't you call those when it f&$#ing mattered?" Wack. B's varsity coach was behind the table ... says that's a rookie call in a game like that.

This is an example where you don't really have a choice. If the kid says that no matter when he says it, you have to penalize it. Every official I can think of doing varsity-level ball in our association would call that just as you did. Either we're all "rookies" or you just made a varsity call.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by AFHusker

As I'm heading to administer the FT after reporting the foul, a team member from B asked "why didn't you call those when it f&$#ing mattered?" Wack. B's varsity coach was behind the table, I don't think he heard what was said, says that's a rookie call in a game like that.

If he wants varsity calls, his players need to play a varsity game!

[JRutledge]

The main questions I would have was what was going on the rest of the game to require Ts for questioning calls? Because if you were giving Ts just for any debate (which is your right to do BTW), then that would determine how much leeway I would give the coach with 10 seconds in the game. In a perfect world you should do everything you can to prevent complaining about calls unless the behavior is obvious to everyone. It sounded like the game was out of hand long before the last T. Unless the coach was yelling across the court or on the court making a scene, I might have just let it go or not stand anywhere he could come and get me with a comment easily.

Peace