Couple issues from the Coach's perspective

[steve33]

Some issues that have cumulated over the season from the Coach's perspective, and I'd like some neutral officials opinions.

First, in an away JUCO game in Arizona this year, our team was basically "screwed" by the scorers table. During the game, our book was on the bench keeping tabs of fouls, and every time a foul was called, he was listening/watching the officials foul call, and then double checking with the scoreboard display. At halftime, we have our #4 with 2 fouls, #14 with 1, and #40 with 4 (bad day). When we come out for the 2nd half, a foul is called on #14, and she all of a sudden has 4 fouls. We have the game stopped to check with the official book, and she says no mistakes were made...Albeit a moot point considering we won. But after review of the tape, the book was completely wrong.

In another game, we were in Dallas, and the referee's didn't think much of our appeals for uniform violations by the other team. NCAA changed rules this year disallowing tights and different colored headbands, and after asking, they said those weren't real rules...same game, kick ball occurs, shot clock was at 3, and they reset to 30, and the rules state that when the clock is down to 14 or lower, the clock resets to 15. Appealed again, said it really didn't matter...

Just some thoughts on how these situations should be handled considering they are out of town officials, since we know where to call if something happens at home.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by steve33

1) our team was basically "screwed" by the scorers table.

2) the referee's didn't think much of our appeals for uniform violations by the other team....same game, kick ball occurs, shot clock was at 3, and they reset to 30,

Hi Coach. Welcome to the forum. Here's my very brief thoughts.

1) Have your book sit at the table next to the home book. It may make it a little more difficult to get some info to the bench, but you will never get that situation again if your scorer is double-checking the home book after every foul and basket.

2) Nothing you can do. Rule mis-applications happen. Unless you know the local assignor, you just have to live with it and move on. Sorry, but it's true.

[steve33]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Hi Coach. Welcome to the forum. Here's my very brief thoughts.

1) Have your book sit at the table next to the home book. It may make it a little more difficult to get some info to the bench, but you will never get that situation again if your scorer is double-checking the home book after every foul and basket.

2) Nothing you can do. Rule mis-applications happen. Unless you know the local assignor, you just have to live with it and move on. Sorry, but it's true.

Nice to know there are some intelligent officials out there who can just tell it like it is. I thank you. One last thing though, as bad as the officials were in Arizona and Texas, we recently played 3 games in Kansas, and all 3 games were, for lack of a better term, PERFECTLY officiated. So for those of you who ref Juco in Kansas, Kudos.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by steve33

First, in an away JUCO game in Arizona this year, our team was basically "screwed" by the scorers table.

You know how there are magic words or phrases that instantly turn off certain groups of people? Well, saying "we got screwed" is one of those phrases for officials. Try a more pleasant euphenism.

I would suggest you keep you bookkeepr at the table next to the home scorekeeper. Something I personally do when checking with the table at various points in the game is to ask if both scorekeepers both have the same players in foul trouble.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You know how there are magic words or phrases that instantly turn off certain groups of people? Well, saying "we got screwed" is one of those phrases for officials. Try a more pleasant euphenism.

Manhandled?
Pushed around?
Worked over?
Robbed?
Jobbed?

[steve33]

Well, I tried to be as nice as possible... sorry if I turned you off... :-p

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Manhandled?
Pushed around?
Worked over?
Robbed?
Jobbed?

Hey...what's that smell...??? Oh yeah, I know...

[sj]

If it just so happens that it's not worked out for the bookkeepers to sit next to each other then make sure that your bookkeeper checks with the official book at halftime to make sure both books have the same thing.

[Junker]

I agree that in both cases you had some definite officiating problems. About all you can to is report to the conference commissioner and hope they take care of it. As far as the scorer's problems, did the officials even discuss the discrepency between the 2 books? Obviously the official book is what they need to be using, but I would think that big of a difference would have been noticed by someone on the crew. It wouldn't have made a difference in your game, but at least the officials could have reported the scorer's problems to the assignor and then the assignor could contact the school. I had a lower level HS game a few weeks ago where we basically changed the official book to the visitor's book because we had a couple of HS girls taking care of the home book and they were doing a terrible job.

Keep up the good questions. Some officials (including me at times) see the terms "got screwed" and immediately get riled up. You brought up some valid points of things that should have been done right at any level of game, especially college.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by steve33

Well, I tried to be as nice as possible... sorry if I turned you off... :-p

Don't worry. I think the point was not necessarily the use of that term as the implication that intentional harm was done to your team. I think it's the very very rare case rather than the norm that an official would willfuly and maliciously call a game a certain way just to harm your team. That's what the term "we got screwed" implies and why officials are so loathe to hear it.

[steve33]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Don't worry. I think the point was not necessarily the use of that term as the implication that intentional harm was done to your team. I think it's the very very rare case rather than the norm that an official would willfully and maliciously call a game a certain way just to harm your team. That's what the term "we got screwed" implies and why officials are so loathe to hear it.

In my first scenario, it was more the home team's book keeper rather than the officials. But I see what you are saying and I can sometimes vouch for your loathing of hearing some "we got screwed". Because I certainly do my fair share of yelling.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by steve33

Some issues that have cumulated over the season from the Coach's perspective, and I'd like some neutral officials opinions.

Just some thoughts on how these situations should be handled considering they are out of town officials, since we know where to call if something happens at home.

Okay, here's the deal. Arizona and Dallas, so you travel quite a bit to do these games. I assume they are not conference games. Games that are non-conference, not a lot you can do about it if the school doesn't go thru an association for it's officials. Next year if you accept those games. You make sure the officials used come from an association in the area that is credible, or you're not making the trip. The table personal in Arizona needs to be better too. Ask for some assurances from the A/D that these issues are resolved, or you're not going there either. Don't just take their word for it either, demand more. That's the way you handle that. I feel for coaches that run into bad officials in a game and there's nothing you can do about it. Now you know why coaches get so frustrated with officials at times. If we're going to get screwed (for lack of a better word), than you're going to get an earful. Leave it at that.

[26 Year Gap]

Some people used Clif notes to help in understanding some books. Old School used the Cliffs of Insanity to understand the rule book.

[Texas Aggie]

Who did you play in Dallas and when?

The reason I ask is because none of the Dallas county jucos play women's ball. Collin County college does, and they are just north of Dallas in Plano, but I didn't see an Arizona school on their schedule.

[Ref Daddy]

Originally Posted by steve33

Some issues that have cumulated over the season from the Coach's perspective, and I'd like some neutral officials opinions.
.

Hello Steve. What does the term in RED mean? What is a neutral official?