T on Coach with 10 seconds left

[bgtg19]

hbioteach, should you have ignored him? Only you can say for sure. I'm inclined to respect your judgment. For purposes of evaluating and thinking about future cases, I'll echo what others have either said or implied. It is *really* tough to T a coach in that spot, especially if you have not assessed the T for similar behavior previously. However, this coach IS gaining an advantage that s/he is not supposed to have, so I do recognize and applaud your willingness to take away the advantage.... The main lesson, I think, is to see if you can figure out a way to deal with behavior like this at a time in the game which is not in the last 10 seconds of the game. Sometimes, officials have no choice ... here it sounds like there may have been some choices available. Good luck.

[Old School]

Although I agree with everything said here. There is something else to consider imo.
#1.) you got 10 seconds left to go in the game.
#2.) you got a close game, possible game winning shot situation.
#3.) you got the action on the floor you need to deal with now.

You've dealt with this bad situation and now you got 10 seconds left. It's downhill from here baby. 10 more seconds and I'm out of here. I don't have to look or deal with you folks anymore. I'm focusing down on the game, last second shot procedures, who's got the clock, let the players decide. Hopefully no overtime. Go home afterwards.

I'm going to go against the grain and recommend this for the next time. Others may say this is bad advise but I'm going to teach you some survivor skills. Take point #3 above, with 10 seconds left, don't look at the coach unless he says something to you, watch the action on the floor, 3, 2, 1, game over, go home. One more thing, since you know the coach is standing after you told him he couldn't, his player just might not get the call he needs, should there be a lot of contact on the last play, if you know what I mean.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Old School

Take point #3 above, with 10 seconds left, don't look at the coach unless he says something to you, watch the action on the floor, 3, 2, 1, game over, go home. One more thing, since you know the coach is standing after you told him he couldn't, his player just might not get the call he needs, should there be a lot of contact on the last play, if you know what I mean.

Just when I start thinking that maybe Old Azz might have something going on upstairs after all, he comes out and tells someone to go ahead and cheat and adds a little wink like that would be really, really funny...

I don't have a problem with ignoring the coach for the last 10 seconds, but hbio, don't ever follow that last piece of crap advice...

[Old School]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Just when I start thinking that maybe Old Azz might have something going on upstairs after all, he comes out and tells someone to go ahead and cheat and adds a little wink like that would be really, really funny...

I don't have a problem with ignoring the coach for the last 10 seconds, but hbio, don't ever follow that last piece of crap advice...

The OP admitted it was a bad game. He had already called about 6 technicals in the game. It didn't appear that the coaches was doing their part very well either to help makes things better. Nope, I told him he couldn't stand, he stood up anyway. That's not smart coaching. You demand the best out of me, how about you do your part. I would never tell anyone to cheat, shame on you for suggesting such a thing on a referee board. However, my judgment might be persuaded one way or the other depending on the circumstances. For example; if I got a real good game, I might call that marginal foul a foul, team/players earned it, however, under the same token, I'm at the end of a game that has gone bad, a marginal foul might not get called at all, it's my judgment. Game! Next! or go home.

Consider this if you will, you want me to call a 2-shot foul in a 2-point game with 10 seconds left that could potentially tie the game and send it to overtime, in a game that's gone bad! You think about that! We got coaches that don't respect your authority, players that are undiscipline. Survival skills young man, survival of the fittest and something they won't tell you out here but I will be honest with you, survival is really for the smartest. And last, I will preference this with, if I'm making $1200 per official for the game, we're playing it out and I'm ignoring the coach in the last 10 seconds. On the other hand, if I'm making $20 for the game, game over! Survival skills....

[Terrapins Fan]

If you wouldn't do it then, why do it now? Not criticizing, just curious.

Hmmmmmm, let me think....my game was 20 point spread, the coach losing WANTED the "T". This game, 2 points. That's the difference.

This coach was warned. But still did what he wanted to do. What would happen if the other coach got up off the bench? what if they came out of their boxes? What's the penalty?

I understand " Let the kids decide" but this coach disobeyed his warning. Yeah, Let the kids decide, but the coach broke the rule. It's unfair to the team following the rules to allow the other team not to follow the rule. You put them at a disadvange.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

Hmmmmmm, let me think....my game was 20 point spread, the coach losing WANTED the "T". This game, 2 points. That's the difference.

This coach was warned. But still did what he wanted to do. What would happen if the other coach got up off the bench? what if they came out of their boxes? What's the penalty?

I understand " Let the kids decide" but this coach disobeyed his warning. Yeah, Let the kids decide, but the coach broke the rule. It's unfair to the team following the rules to allow the other team not to follow the rule. You put them at a disadvange.

Thanks for clearing that up.

So the coach who was publicly ripping you a new one was following the rules?

[dblref]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

Hmmmmmm, let me think....my game was 20 point spread, the coach losing WANTED the "T". This game, 2 points. That's the difference.

This coach was warned. But still did what he wanted to do. What would happen if the other coach got up off the bench? what if they came out of their boxes? What's the penalty?

I understand " Let the kids decide" but this coach disobeyed his warning. Yeah, Let the kids decide, but the coach broke the rule. It's unfair to the team following the rules to allow the other team not to follow the rule. You put them at a disadvange.

I understand what you are saying, but the point spread should have absolutely no bearing on whether the coach gets the T or not. If he deserves it (and the coach in your post earlier did deserve it), he should have gotten it. Otherwise, IMHO, the officials in the next set of games have to take care of what wasn't taken care of earlier.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by Old School

Consider this if you will, you want me to call a 2-shot foul in a 2-point game with 10 seconds left that could potentially tie the game and send it to overtime, in a game that's gone bad!

If the foul is deserved it should be called.

"marginal" - How does this word even come in to an Officials vocabulary? Thats like telling someone they are marginally pregnant IMO.

I was giving you benefit of doubt OS for some of your posts marginally had common sense littered in them. I can now see through the fog and its not a pretty sight.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

If the foul is deserved it should be called.

"marginal" - How does this word even come in to an Officials vocabulary? Thats like telling someone they are marginally pregnant IMO.

I was giving you benefit of doubt OS for some of your posts marginally had common sense littered in them. I can now see through the fog and its not a pretty sight.

Marginal is valid in officiating, IMO. We make judgment calls all the time, I didn't think that was a foul, it was marginal, could have been, one official might say yes, another might say no. Margin of error, margin of degree of contact, margin of degree of difficulty, you got no chance of making that shot, therefore, I'm not bailing you out with a foul.

Come on, marginally pregnant, you're out there! I can now see thru the fog too, and that's a dumbazz comparison to me. Go eat some more smoke, it might help with the fog in your life.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Old School

I would never tell anyone to cheat, shame on you for suggesting such a thing on a referee board.

And yet you did tell the OP'er to cheat...that comment you made about not calling the foul in the last ten seconds and then adding the little wink icon - that's telling that official NOT to do his job and to cheat to prove a point to the coach who was standing...that's crap. It's crap advice, and it's a crap way to do your job...so there is no shame on me for pointing out that you are full of crap.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

And yet you did tell the OP'er to cheat...that comment you made about not calling the foul in the last ten seconds and then adding the little wink icon - that's telling that official NOT to do his job and to cheat to prove a point to the coach who was standing...that's crap. It's crap advice, and it's a crap way to do your job...so there is no shame on me for pointing out that you are full of crap.

You can view it as crap all you want. I'm just being real. If the coach wants to argue that I missed a foul, late in the game that could have helped his team win the game. Then he needs to answer first, why is he standing up after recieving a technical and being warmed not too! Your shame is ignoring reality and ignoring the fact that people are people first.

A wise man once said; when you fail to heed a warning, then you shall suffer the consequences. Those consequences could be a technical late in the game, which the OP said he did, or those consequences could come from somewhere else. Like, all of a sudden, your kid got the ball, my eyes are waterly, can't see clear, did something just happen?, or, his player may go in to shoot and beep!, no shot!, TRAVELING....!!!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

A wise man once said; when you fail to heed a warning, then you shall suffer the consequences. Those consequences could be a technical late in the game, which the OP said he did, or those consequences could come from somewhere else. Like, all of a sudden, your kid got the ball, my eyes are waterly, can't see clear, did something just happen?, or, his player may go in to shoot and beep!, no shot!, TRAVELING....!!!!

Well, that reinforces what Rocky had to say. You get even by either ignoring a foul or calling a phantom violation.

Pure, unadulterated crap.

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by Old School

A wise man once said; when you fail to heed a warning, then you shall suffer the consequences.

You and your wise men. Turns out your last wise man was Hellen Keller. I wonder who this one is?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Old School

why is he standing up ... and being warmed not too!

Is this where the term "hot seat" comes from?

[Terrapins Fan]

it's 20 points verses 2 point.....