clock not starting with only a few seconds left

Tmeup · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 08, 2003, 12:41pm

I just started reffing this year
but I coached for a couple years before, and I came across this situation.
there was about 5 seconds left at the end of the third quarter. when the ball was inbounded the clock didnt start and neither ref noticed. after about 7 seconds of the fans yelling "start the clock" they finally start the clock. and then at about 2 seconds left on the clock (10 seconds after the ball was inbounded) the other team shoots the ball and one of my player gets a rebounding foul. Actually my best player got the foul and it was his fourth. Don't criticize me here I know I should not of had him in the game. But after the refs call the foul I throw a tantrum (Bob Knight style)about not starting the clock- for some odd reason I did not get a technical (If I would of got the first, I am guessing the second one would of come within seconds of the first)

the question I have- if I am reffing and I would come across a situation like this what can I do

TriggerMN · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 08, 2003, 12:53pm

If the ball is in the backcourt, or the ball handler is being closely guarded in the frontcourt, you better be counting. If that happens, you have definite knowledge of the time being used, and can by rule change the clock. If you have a team just passing the ball around, you're SOL, if you haven't noticed.

Also, whenever you hear ANYBODY yelling "Start the clock," you take a quick glance at the scoreboard. If it hasn't started, stop play immediately.

BktBallRef · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 08, 2003, 01:05pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Tmeup
the question I have- if I am reffing and I would come across a situation like this what can I do

You should issue the technical foul immediately and if Bobby Knight continues with his tirade, pop him again.

rainmaker · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 08, 2003, 02:30pm

Saturday, I was working some 3rd grade games. Very fun! One of the parents was mockng me for continuously counting -- the parent was mocking, because in this league they don't have any closely guarded rules, nor a 10-second backcourt rule. But my arm just kept popping up and wagging back and forth. Well, the reason is that I have trained myself to do a lot of counting, just for this reason. Even at the varsity level, clock people goof. Sometimes bigtime. If you've been counting you know how much time to take off and how much to put back. Even if you don't, you can estimate in your head and say, "I'm sure I counted at least to 9 and then 3 and then 2 so put back 14 seconds" or whatever. Saves a lot of grief.

If you can learn to always keep track of the clock when the ball comes inbounds, and when the ball goes dead, you will know there are 5 seconds left, and that you've counted 7, and that means the game is over. You are authorized to whistle the play dead, and end the game at that point.

Even if it gets as far as it did in your case, you can realize that you were in backcourt for at least 7 seconds and the game should have been over at that point. Cancel the foul, explain to the coaches, and get the heck out of Dodge. Completely legal to do that.

Tmeup · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 08, 2003, 02:38pm

So at the time of the foul. I could concur w/ the other ref and say the time should of been out and say that because the time should of been out there will be no foul and the quarter/game is done.

canuckrefguy · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 08, 2003, 02:45pm

Anybody else leery of these new posters, who "just started reffing this year"....and then, of course, we find out "but I also coached for a few years"...

I think we have a lot of pissed off players and coaches coming here looking for vindication.

Tmeup · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 08, 2003, 03:14pm

hold on now
I am only 25 and just started reffing and so far and am enjoying it a lot and I plan on doing it for as long as possible
As a coach you cannot appreciate what refs do unto you ref

but if i had to decide right now i would rather ref

rainmaker · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 08, 2003, 05:37pm

Quote:

Originally posted by canuckrefguy
I think we have a lot of pissed off players and coaches coming here looking for vindication.

We may have A FEW every once in a while, but I think you just have to judge each separate post based on its own merits.

This question was certainly asked in a polite and neutral way, and appears to be just a request for information. If he's really a pissed off coach or player looking for vindication, we'll see it soon enough! And just for the record, the most pissed-off angry people we've had here that weren't refs were parents and fans, not coaches and players.

rainmaker · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 08, 2003, 05:40pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Tmeup
So at the time of the foul. I could concur w/ the other ref and say the time should of been out and say that because the time should of been out there will be no foul and the quarter/game is done.

You should eventually concur (which means "agree"), but first you'll want to confer (which means "talk to").

Confer with your partner, say that the time ran out well before the foul, of which you are certain since you were counting, explain to the coaches and the table, and don't forget the most important part -- get the heck out of Dodge. In other words, don't stand around discussing. You've ruled, game over, that's it.

rainmaker · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 08, 2003, 05:42pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Tmeup
I just started reffing this year
but I coached for a couple years before, and I came across this situation.
there was about 5 seconds left at the end of the third quarter. when the ball was inbounded the clock didnt start and neither ref noticed. after about 7 seconds of the fans yelling "start the clock" they finally start the clock. and then at about 2 seconds left on the clock (10 seconds after the ball was inbounded) the other team shoots the ball and one of my player gets a rebounding foul. Actually my best player got the foul and it was his fourth. Don't criticize me here I know I should not of had him in the game. But after the refs call the foul I throw a tantrum (Bob Knight style)about not starting the clock- for some odd reason I did not get a technical (If I would of got the first, I am guessing the second one would of come within seconds of the first)

the question I have- if I am reffing and I would come across a situation like this what can I do

The question left in my mind is, what did the refs do in this situation, besides not give a T?

Tmeup · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 09, 2003, 09:32am

The refs did nothing
I dont think they knew how much time was on the clock, when they inbounded.

thanks everybody for your reply
this has helped me while I am reffing to keep better time management

rainmaker · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 09, 2003, 03:50pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BushRef

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
... and don't forget the most important part -- get the heck out of Dodge. In other words, don't stand around discussing. You've ruled, game over, that's it.

If you really read the post, he said the play occurred at the end of the third quarter, not the game.

You're right, BushRef, I didn't read carefully enough, and get the heck out of Dodge doesn't apply at the end of the third quarter. And I thought it was such a toothsome piece of advice...

SMEngmann · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 11, 2003, 01:53am

After the foul call, as a coach, it was definitely the wrong time to throw a tantrum. Rather, you should have called the officials over and calmly explained the situation. Imagine it's a 1 point game with Coach A's team ahead and the situation happens. Coach A loses his cool, pops off and gets a T. The officials confer and agree that time had expired before the foul. Guess what: team B is now shooting two free throws to win because coach A lost it. A classic example of why coaches should always remain calm.