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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2007, 02:58pm
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T on Coach with 10 seconds left

Preface the situation, worst game in 10 years of officiating.
2 player technicals for aguing calls one for A and one for B.
Coach of B gets indirect technical for player technical called after sub was made.
Assistant coach of A double T and ejected for coming onto the court, auguing call, and cursing at partner.
2 intentional fouls called on players (one on A and one on B).

I was the R and tried to talk to the remaining coaches and players about trying to just play basketball the last 5 minutes and remind both coaches that must stay in their seats for the rest of the game.

Coach A after being warned 2x to be seated after receiving indirect T, is given T by me with 10 seconds left for standing and coaching while A has the ball down by 2.

Should I just have ignored the coach?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2007, 03:09pm
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tough one -- he was coaching -- i might have let this go as it is 10 seconds left and grated hes not standing to show pleasure for an outstanding play -- its 10 seconds of a lot of instruction depending on the level. but you did warn him -- judgement here and I would not call the T from what you describe.

now if he was an azz the whole game then no way -- but he probably would have gotten a T earlier and been ejected anyway because of the 3 T's he would have earned no?
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2007, 03:17pm
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Give him the T, stare at his pants then puke on his shoes.

Seriously, if you don't give the T, you lose credibility for all the other calls.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2007, 03:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbioteach
Coach A after being warned 2x to be seated after receiving indirect T, is given T by me with 10 seconds left for standing and coaching while A has the ball down by 2.

Should I just have ignored the coach?
T after the first warning. Once you gave him a 2nd, he thinks he will be warned for the rest of the game. Better yet, don't give a warning because you already told him he had to be seated for the rest of the game because of the indirect.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2007, 03:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbioteach

Coach A after being warned 2x to be seated after receiving indirect T, is given T by me with 10 seconds left for standing and coaching while A has the ball down by 2.

Should I just have ignored the coach?
Two warnings is one too many. Other than that, just fuggedaboutit. All you did was react to all of the unsporting acts being committed, and that's your job. The coaches/players were the ones that caused all the crap. There's not much else you can do in a game like that. You have to maintain control, no matter what, and it sounds like you did just that. Don't second guess yourself; move on.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2007, 03:39pm
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The main questions I would have was what was going on the rest of the game to require Ts for questioning calls? Because if you were giving Ts just for any debate (which is your right to do BTW), then that would determine how much leeway I would give the coach with 10 seconds in the game. In a perfect world you should do everything you can to prevent complaining about calls unless the behavior is obvious to everyone. It sounded like the game was out of hand long before the last T. Unless the coach was yelling across the court or on the court making a scene, I might have just let it go or not stand anywhere he could come and get me with a comment easily.

Peace
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2007, 03:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Two warnings is one too many.......
I agree, especially since you already reminded them both about the seat belt with 5 minutes remaining.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2007, 07:44pm
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I had a situation in a BJV game this year. A up by 15, A1 fouls B1 with 3 secs left. As I'm heading to administer the FT after reporting the foul, a team member from B asked "why didn't you call those when it f&$#ing mattered?" Wack. B's varsity coach was behind the table, I don't think he heard what was said, says that's a rookie call in a game like that. After the game I go visit with the varsity crew before their game (as I usually do) and ask their opinion. I was told -- where do you draw the line? Is it at 5 seconds? 10 seconds? The answer is you can't draw the line.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2007, 08:26pm
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hbioteach, should you have ignored him? Only you can say for sure. I'm inclined to respect your judgment. For purposes of evaluating and thinking about future cases, I'll echo what others have either said or implied. It is *really* tough to T a coach in that spot, especially if you have not assessed the T for similar behavior previously. However, this coach IS gaining an advantage that s/he is not supposed to have, so I do recognize and applaud your willingness to take away the advantage.... The main lesson, I think, is to see if you can figure out a way to deal with behavior like this at a time in the game which is not in the last 10 seconds of the game. Sometimes, officials have no choice ... here it sounds like there may have been some choices available. Good luck.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2007, 08:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFHusker
[A] team member from B asked "why didn't you call those when it f&$#ing mattered?" Wack. B's varsity coach was behind the table ... says that's a rookie call in a game like that.
This is an example where you don't really have a choice. If the kid says that no matter when he says it, you have to penalize it. Every official I can think of doing varsity-level ball in our association would call that just as you did. Either we're all "rookies" or you just made a varsity call.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2007, 09:08pm
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Although I agree with everything said here. There is something else to consider imo.
#1.) you got 10 seconds left to go in the game.
#2.) you got a close game, possible game winning shot situation.
#3.) you got the action on the floor you need to deal with now.

You've dealt with this bad situation and now you got 10 seconds left. It's downhill from here baby. 10 more seconds and I'm out of here. I don't have to look or deal with you folks anymore. I'm focusing down on the game, last second shot procedures, who's got the clock, let the players decide. Hopefully no overtime. Go home afterwards.

I'm going to go against the grain and recommend this for the next time. Others may say this is bad advise but I'm going to teach you some survivor skills. Take point #3 above, with 10 seconds left, don't look at the coach unless he says something to you, watch the action on the floor, 3, 2, 1, game over, go home. One more thing, since you know the coach is standing after you told him he couldn't, his player just might not get the call he needs, should there be a lot of contact on the last play, if you know what I mean.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2007, 09:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School

Take point #3 above, with 10 seconds left, don't look at the coach unless he says something to you, watch the action on the floor, 3, 2, 1, game over, go home. One more thing, since you know the coach is standing after you told him he couldn't, his player just might not get the call he needs, should there be a lot of contact on the last play, if you know what I mean.
Just when I start thinking that maybe Old Azz might have something going on upstairs after all, he comes out and tells someone to go ahead and cheat and adds a little wink like that would be really, really funny...

I don't have a problem with ignoring the coach for the last 10 seconds, but hbio, don't ever follow that last piece of crap advice...
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2007, 10:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
...but I'm going to teach you some survivor skills...since you know the coach is standing after you told him he couldn't, his player just might not get the call he needs, should there be a lot of contact on the last play, if you know what I mean.
Cheating is a survival skill or Survivor (as in the TV show) skill?

Seriously, read your words again. I know what you meant to say, but did you actually think about this idea before you posted it?
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2007, 10:23pm
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Wack Him. Period. Next time maybe he will learn to listen to the warnings.

You warned him, nuff said.

Old school said-
Quote:
10 more seconds and I'm out of here. I don't have to look or deal with you folks anymore. I'm focusing down on the game, last second shot procedures, who's got the clock, let the players decide.
Why not just call the game now? Why wait 10 seconds? do the last 10 seconds matter? If it were 1 minute and 1o seconds would you "T" him up? then do it now. It's still part of the game.

Personally, I can take care of the coaches and the palyers without shorting anyone.

"T"
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 06, 2007, 07:19am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan
Wack Him. Period. Next time maybe he will learn to listen to the warnings.

You warned him, nuff said.

Old school said-

Why not just call the game now? Why wait 10 seconds? do the last 10 seconds matter? If it were 1 minute and 1o seconds would you "T" him up? then do it now. It's still part of the game.

Personally, I can take care of the coaches and the palyers without shorting anyone.

"T"
Hang on there a second Terps Fan. Weren't you the one last week who posted about a coach "begging for a T", but you wouldn't give him one. If you wouldn't do it then, why do it now? Not criticizing, just curious.
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