The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 15, 2006, 07:14am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 108
Situation with 5 seconds left

I was calling a spring HS boys game. 5 seconds left team A score a 3 pointer to be within 1 point. as the basket was going through the hoop. the team A called time out. I was in the trail at the time the basket was scored. the official under the basket didn't grant the Time out to the player 5 feet away from him. with some delay I see the time out being called and grant the timeout. The coach from team B, had a valid complaint that team B already had possession of the ball underneath thebasket and the time out should not be granted. The end result was I granted team A the time out. They stole the ball on the inbounds and score with 1 second left and win by1.

Please give me any opinion and or suggestion to this issue.

Last edited by Ref_ Fred; Mon May 15, 2006 at 07:21am.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 15, 2006, 07:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,104
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
If you see or hear the request before the ball is at the disposal of the other team, then you grant it. If it seems late, and the coach complains, you simply say the request came earlier.

Why did your partner not grant it? Did s/he not see it? Or was there a reason for not granting it?
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 15, 2006, 07:42am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,221
1) The lead shoulda granted the timeout.
2) If team B was holding the ball for the throw-in, you shouldn't have granted team A's timeout request, unless you honestly can say that you recognized the TO request before B had the ball.
3) Once you did blow your whistle to grant team A the timeout though, you have to go ahead and give them that timeout. See NFHS casebook play 5.8.3SitE.
4) Tell team B coach "my bad".
5) Resume play after the timeout with team B getting a non-spot end line throw-in.

Sh!t happens. No big deal.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 15, 2006, 07:54am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 108
Quote:
unless you honestly can say that you recognized the TO request before B had the ball.
I did see the time out and waiting for the lead to call the TO. That is why I came with delay TO.

when I aske my partner why he didn't call it. He said he didn't see it.

I feel different about it I think he heard it. there is no way that he didn't see it or hear it. he was 5 feet away. This was not your typical HS game with 1000 people in gym. I did at 40 feet away.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 15, 2006, 08:01am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref_ Fred
I did see the time out and waiting for the lead to call the TO. That is why I came with delay TO.
You had it right then. As Chuck said, by rule it's not when you blow your whistle on the TO, it's when you recognize the TO request.

Either way, on time or late, team A got their deserved timeout anyway......iow, all's well that ends well. Good job on bailing your partner out.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 15, 2006, 09:15am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pflugerville, TX
Posts: 293
Send a message via Yahoo to SeanFitzRef
Hmmmmm....

Me thinks partner was trying to get outta there, no?????
__________________
Nature gave men two ends - one to sit on and one to think with. Ever since then man's success or failure has been dependent on the one he used most.
-- George R. Kirkpatrick
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 15, 2006, 09:23am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
You had it right then. As Chuck said, by rule it's not when you blow your whistle on the TO, it's when you recognize the TO request.
Ah, yes. Such a thing happened to me last season, leading to my first Coaches T in 3 years. Apparently, he didn't like the explanation I gave him, which was just what Chuck said. My whistle for Team A's TO was just late enough that Team B had stolen a pass and was going to have an easy layup at the opposite end.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 15, 2006, 09:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 108
I'm glad it was a spring league and not regular season, the head coach was sitting in the stand, he did make sure that I heard about it after the game. The end result was he got an L. IMO nothing that we( notice the we, not putting it on my partner) may have caused, but in his eyes, it was all the officials for blowing the call.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 15, 2006, 10:33am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 28,767
Fred,

I am going to assume that your partner did not see the time out request and leave it at that. Now unless you saw him look directly at the player and you believe he just did not grant the timeout after seeing the request, then that might be another issue. Just because he is closer does not mean he is more likely to see the request. He might have been too close and you were in a better spot to give a timeout.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 15, 2006, 10:33am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,693
Two things:
  1. when you see a player/coach request a timeout in the closing seconds of a game, blow the whistle no matter where the player is. I don't believe "primary" areas were at all meant to apply to timeout requests.
  2. In situations where you have a delayed whistle on a timeout request, I tell the other coach that I didn't want to blow my whistle inadvertantly and the request was made earlier but I needed to confirm that
    • it really was a timeout request
    • the team had player control of the ball at the time of the request
    • the ball was still dead at the time of the request
    • it was the coach and not some fan behind the coach
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 15, 2006, 10:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 108
Quote:
I am going to assume that your partner did not see the time out request and leave it at that. Now unless you saw him look directly at the player and you believe he just did not grant the timeout after seeing the request, then that might be another issue.
It was my first time working with this official, But not only 5 feet away, he was jumping up and down in front of him. He may have blanked out. Like I have many times when in my earlier years.

Also, I may have had a more of perriphial view of the court.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 15, 2006, 11:08am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 28,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref_ Fred
It was my first time working with this official, But not only 5 feet away, he was jumping up and down in front of him. He may have blanked out. Like I have many times when in my earlier years.

Also, I may have had a more of perriphial view of the court.
Maybe he just froze? Did you ask him? I think this is a situation where you should ask the official to why he did not grant the timeout. All we can do is speculate on reasons and give opinions (which at the end of the day mean nothing). Whether you worked with this guy or not should not be a factor. He might have not been very experienced and just did not know what to do. Also I feel the rule that has allowed coaches to call timeouts has made the occurrences of players calling timeouts rare. Maybe he did not know what to do in this kind of situation? Until you ask him, all we can do is speculate.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 15, 2006, 11:34am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 108
Quote:
when I asked my partner why he didn't call it. He said he didn't see it.
this was in one of my post!

I did ask during the time out. that was his reply. He didn't see it.

No problem As I mentioned many times on this thread. we live and die as a team. So I took the heat from the coach, but we handled it.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 15, 2006, 11:46am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 28,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref_ Fred
this was in one of my post!

I did ask during the time out. that was his reply. He didn't see it.

No problem As I mentioned many times on this thread. we live and die as a team. So I took the heat from the coach, but we handled it.
If your partner answered this question to you directly, what are you asking of us? All you can do is call what you see. You cannot make your partner do anything or call anything. It sounds like he just blew the call. It will not be the first time that happens and it definitely will not be the last. The best you can do is learn from the situation and hope you do not miss this the next time. You saw the TO request and you granted. You got it right, not sure what else you expect to do.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 15, 2006, 11:54am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 108
JR, I was trying to get different opinions. One poster mentioned that about of calling primary. I know the call was correct. I justed wanted to get different Opinions. I got mixed opinions from some of the officials I spoke to.

I wanted some honest opinions like yourself on this thread.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2 seconds left 2 point lead! Rick82358 Basketball 32 Fri Mar 03, 2006 03:04pm
Calling a foul with 3 seconds left in a blowout bradfordwilkins Basketball 11 Thu Feb 10, 2005 02:50pm
Inboudn play with 2.8 seconds left jarecker1 Basketball 89 Mon Dec 20, 2004 01:32pm
3 T's; 2 ejections; 12 seconds left on the clock :moan: ace Basketball 3 Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:26pm
clock not starting with only a few seconds left Tmeup Basketball 12 Thu Dec 11, 2003 01:53am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:50am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1