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Old Sun Feb 04, 2007, 03:06am
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Nevada/Hawaii Game Today

Don't know if anyone saw the highlights - but a ridiculous ending. I believe most of these facts are correct (but correct me if I'm wrong!):

Nevada up 69-68 with about 10 seconds left, ball is in Hawaii's front court, Hawaii possession. Hawaii player (H1) is on the baseline, gets the ball, Nevada player (N1) grabs a hold of his jersey and is tugging, H1 turns around, putting up a shot with N2 still grabbing him, TWEET, shoots, scores, official on baseline signals foul on N1, basket good!

Nevada coach goes beserk, officials get back together, confer for 3-5 mins, and decide to take the points off the board, and put the foul on the floor.

For those that saw the game, did it look to you like Hawaii got the shaft? Would you have called an intentional on N1 for not making a play on the ball?

Looked like the worst of all worlds for the refs - if no other ref called a foul on the floor, and no one called the initital tugging, how can you turn around and put the foul on the floor? And how can you not call it an intentional? And overrule the baseline ref who had the play 3 feet in front of him?
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Old Sun Feb 04, 2007, 03:11am
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Here we go.
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Old Sun Feb 04, 2007, 03:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Here we go.

Be gentle...... I saw the replay, and was wondering myself.....
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Old Sun Feb 04, 2007, 05:51am
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{Fanboy mode ON} YEAH BABY!!!!!!!! Nevada WINS!!! {Fanboy mode Off}

I was officiating #2 vs #3 in the league and then playing in a poker tournament, (Knocked out in 7th with A,10 vs. K,K after the flop came A,8,3 and I moved all-in. He called and turned a K, PLUS RIVERED another K for quads!) so I missed the game, but I taped it. I am going to watch it right now. I'll post my thoughts later and anyone who wishes for a slow-mo frame-by-frame breakdown, I'll be happy to give it.

BTW Nevada won the first meeting @ Hawaii 68-66 in OT.
The officials for the 2nd game @Nevada were: Bill Gracey, Brian Sorenson, Kelly Self

Here is the ESPN article on the game:

RENO, Nev. -- Marcelus Kemp knows how close Nevada (No. 13 ESPN/USA Today; No. 15 AP) came to being upset by Hawaii in a wild finish in the final seconds Saturday night.

"It feels like we dodged a bullet," said Kemp, who scored the Wolf Pack's first 14 points of the second half and finished with 23 in the 69-68 victory.

Nick Fazekas added 21 points and 10 rebounds for Nevada (21-2, 9-1 Western Athletic Conference), which has won 14 of its last 15 games and now is 57-6 at home since the start of the 2003-04 season.

Hawaii appeared to have gone ahead 70-69 on Ahmet Gueye's desperation basket from 10 feet with 5.8 seconds left and Gueye headed for the free throw line after being fouled by Fazekas.

But after about a five-minute review of the videotape, the officials determined Fazekas fouled Gueye before he released the ball while falling down.

On the inbounds play, Matt Gibson's 3-point attempt was partially blocked by Denis Ikovlev. Gueye grabbed the ball and missed off the backboard before Hawaii's P.J. Owsley put it back in but another review of the tape showed it was after the buzzer.

"That was a great finish and one of the wackier ones, I guess," Nevada coach Mark Fox said. "We dodged a bullet, like the kids said."

The Wolf Pack made 20-of-21 free throws on the game and have missed only one of their last 40 from the line. Fazekas made all nine of his free-throw attempts for the three-time defending champions of the WAC.

"That's how you win games," Fazekas said. "You have to be able to shoot well from the free-throw line. ... They had their chance to beat us but we got them in the end."

Gueye made 10-of-15 shots for 21 points and 10 rebounds for Hawaii (13-10, 4-6 WAC), which had won three in a row. Matt Lojeski added 12 points, Gibson 11 and Owsley 10 for the Rainbow Warriors.

Hawaii coach Riley Wallace, who is retiring at the end of the season after 20 years as coach, saw his career record fall to 0-10 at Nevada.

"They have great players. They have a great record and they've dominated the league for the last three years," Wallace said.

Leading 67-66, Nevada point guard Ramon Sessions made a pair of free throws for a 69-66 lead with 1:13 left. But Gueye scored in the lane to cut it to 69-68 with 49 seconds remaining before Lojeski stole Kyle Shiloh's pass to give Hawaii the ball with 32 seconds left and set up the dramatic finish.

Gueye took a pass on the edge of the lane and, as he was falling down, tossed the ball high in the air before it came down through the net. When the referees signaled basket, Fox ripped his jacket off and went face to face with official Bill Gracey, who then reviewed the tape and reversed the call.

"One official counted the basket but he didn't confer with the other two officials," said Steve Macy, the WAC's assistant commissioner who was at the game.

"The other two said the basket did not count so they waved off the shot. It was a judgment call and they wanted to get it right," he said.

Fox said the officials deserved credit for reviewing the play.

"As much grief as they take, it takes courage to do it right," Fox said, adding that he wasn't very pleased with the play of his team.

"We did make foul shots. That's about the only thing we did that was something positive," Fox said. "Give Hawaii credit. They outplayed us in many ways, but we did shoot free throws very well."

Kemp opened the second half with consecutive 3-pointers to start his personal 14-point run, capped by another 3-point goal to put Nevada ahead 54-45 at 13:40.

Lojeski and Gibson made back-to-back threes and Gueye hit from 17 feet to cut it to 56-55 at 10:07. The Warriors tied it 59-59 when Gibson scored in the lane off a pass from Bobby Nash with 7:39 left.

Fazekas made a pair of free throws and Kemp turned a steal into a dunk to put Nevada up 63-59 at 5:46. But Lojeski scored inside and Nash hit a 3-pointer to cut it to 65-64 at 2:24.

Sessions scored inside for a 67-64 lead at 2:01, then after Owsley's 15-footer, made two free throws to make it 69-66 at 1:13.

Nevada went on a 9-0 run midway through the first half for a 25-15 lead when Ikovlev blocked Dominic Waters' shot in the lane, went the length of the floor for a dunk, was fouled and made the free throw.

Hawaii answered with a 16-6 run, including 3-point goals by Nash and Gibson, and Owsley's jumper to tie it 31-31 4:50 before the half. But Kemp followed with a 3-pointer, Fazekas made four free throws and Sessions two for a 40-33 lead at the break.

Before the game, Nevada President Milt Glick and athletic director Cary Groth presented a rocking chair to Wallace.
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Old Sun Feb 04, 2007, 09:26am
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I actually watched the game live on the duece out here in OK (I was flipping between the end of that and the Kansas-Texas A&M game, which was a great game). Anyway, with only about 8-9 seconds left and Hawaii down 1, the ball came to a Hawaii player in the low post, and the Nevada player having a foul to give stared pulling jersey, swinging at arms, anything he could do to get a call. To start it looked like every bit of an intentionaly foul to me. The Nevada player actually pulled him down by his jersey. Nonetheless, L was straitlined and didn't see the initial grab of the jersey, so he didn't call anything until the Hawaii player had grabbed the ball and threw it toward the basket in desperation (most likely knowing that he had to be in the act of shooting to be awarded FT's, he was just trying to make it look like an attempt). The ball eventually ended up going in and because he missed the initial grab and pull of the jersey, he counted the basket.

This is where Nevada's coach rips off his jacket, goes toe to toe with the calling official who is now at the table to report the foul. IMO, he did everything he could to earn a T, regardless of whether or not the call was right or wrong. I obviously don't know what all was said, but the non-verbal aspect of the situation was enough for me to come to that conclusion.

Eventally the calling official decides to get together with his crew and sort this out. As they discuss, the ESPN2 analyst catches on the replay that C had actually raised his fist to signal a foul on the intial jersey grab and pull. They even made a comment to the effect of - now the officials have to decide who called the foul first and whether it was on the shot. IMO, a rare example of good analyst analysis with regard to the officials. Following the discussion, they go with the C's early foul call as a common foul, no bonus, no FT's, Hawaii ball out on the side. The ensuing inbound resulted in a blocked 3Pt try, a Hawaii recovery, another shot from the elbow, and a final rebound as the light lit on the backboard and a lay-in a second too late.

IMO, the situation should have come down to an Intentional Foul on Nevada and a T on Nevada's coach for the tirade. I do think they got it right that the foul happend well before the Hawaii player was in the act, so no basket no FT's was the right call there. I think the biggest mistake that was made was that C didn't close down on the foul as soon as he made it. I know there are some that don't ever close down on foul, but given the grab and pull aspect of the foul, I'd have been in there ASAP had I been in C's position out of an expectation of some extra activity. This might have at least drawn some initial discussion between C and L before a basket was actually awarded. Ultimately, now that I give it further consideration, I think the biggest mistake was a lack of communication, but the C could have fostered some discussion by getting in there immediately. (Side-note: I realize that this may sound overly critical of the officials, but I make the communication comment with the realization that this is something that requires a ton of work for me in my officiating career and from other guys I've talked to, it is a point of emphasis for them in their games as well. It's probably one of the toughest aspects for me.)

I think the whole situation comes out looking ugly because of the initial confusion and the tirade by the Nevada coach, but this was a situation that I think was handled well with the exception of my judgement on IF's and T's being a little different. But heck maybe that's why I'm not a D1 official.
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Old Sun Feb 04, 2007, 09:29am
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Ok, I've watched the tape. The foul by Fazekas is well before the act of shooting and Hawaii was not in the bonus. However, the foul should have been an intentional personal foul. I believe that the Lead could not see the jersey being held from behind due to where he was standing. The C had the first whistle on the play and that was understandably late, due to the play being out of his primary. By the time the Lead put a whistle on the play, the T had also done so.
Gracey was the Lead and he counted the basket on the play. It was after much discussion and tantrum throwing that the officials changed the call. On the tape, they never go to the monitor for this. They merely meet and talk.
That doesn't mean that the monitor was not used. I just can't see it being used on the ESPN telecast due to the camera being on the benches and the coaches. The TV broadcaster also says the he is surprised that the officials aren't going to the monitor. Personally, I don't believe that they can. It was a judgment call.

What a wild ending and a tough loss for Hawaii.
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Old Sun Feb 04, 2007, 09:31am
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Sorry to go on and on and then post again. But I did question the use of the video monitor in this situation. Being to lazy to pull up the NCAA manual (should just make it a favorite), I didn't think this was a situation that was allowed by rule to be reviewed by monitor. I know fouls can be reviewed with regard to the time on the clock when the foul occurred, or which player was guilty of the foul, or who should be on the line if there is uncertainty. My understanding was, however, that a judgement call could not be reviewed. I thought it could only be a case of trying to find definite information. I'm sure I'll be educated by somebody, but this just concerned my as I was watching it live.
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Old Sun Feb 04, 2007, 09:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomerSooner
Sorry to go on and on and then post again. But I did question the use of the video monitor in this situation. Being to lazy to pull up the NCAA manual (should just make it a favorite), I didn't think this was a situation that was allowed by rule to be reviewed by monitor. I know fouls can be reviewed with regard to the time on the clock when the foul occurred, or which player was guilty of the foul, or who should be on the line if there is uncertainty. My understanding was, however, that a judgement call could not be reviewed. I thought it could only be a case of trying to find definite information. I'm sure I'll be educated by somebody, but this just concerned my as I was watching it live.
Without even looking I can tell you that you are incorrect about that point.

I know because Dan_ref corrected me on this just a couple of weeks ago.
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Old Sun Feb 04, 2007, 09:42am
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I just went and watched the whole segment of the tape again and the officials DID NOT use the courtside monitor for this decision.

The officials had previously used the monitor for a clock issue with 1:06 left and later used it to review the final shot at the buzzer.
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Old Sun Feb 04, 2007, 09:43am
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Thank you Nevada, I wasn't even sure when I put that in, but I thought it was an appropriate situation. When I'm in not so lazy a mood, I will certainly check all the situations that apply.

I didn't realize they hadn't used the monitor. The analysts were sure talking like they had.
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Old Sun Feb 04, 2007, 09:48am
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BR-46
RULE 2 Officials and Their Duties
Section 5. Officials Use of Replay/Television Equipment
Art. 3.
The officials shall not use a courtside monitor or courtside videotape
for judgment calls such as:
a. Who committed a foul or whether a foul occurred;
b. Basket interference/goaltending (See 2-11.1.e, A.R. 23);
c. A violation;
d. Whether the ball was released before the activation of the red light or
LED lights;
a. When the red light is not present, the sounding of the game clock
horn; or
e. Whether the ball was released before the sounding of the shot clock
horn. (Exception: 2-5.2.b and .e)
[/SIZE][/FONT]
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Old Sun Feb 04, 2007, 10:04am
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However, I am really confused about the whole NCAA monitor usage rules.



[font=TimesNewRomanPSMT][size=2]
2-11-1e is: "Erroneously counting or canceling a score."



and previously we have:

Rule 2


Section 5. Officials Use of Replay/Television Equipment




Art. 1.


Officials may use official courtside replay equipment, videotape

[font=TimesNewRomanPSMT][size=2]
or television monitoring that is located on a designated courtside table
(i.e., within approximately 3 to 12 feet of the playing court), when such
equipment is available only in situations as follows:
a. A determination if a fight occurred and the individuals who
participated or left the bench area;


[font=TimesNewRomanPSMT]
b. A determination as to who shall attempt a free throw(s) when there


is uncertainty;

c. An assessment whether correctable errors 2-11.1.c, d or e need to be rectified;




So I am confused by that as well as by the apparent prohibition of looking for whether a try beat the LED lights in 2-5-3d and how that fits with 2-5-2 which only talks about looking for 0.00 on the game clock and the recent guideline memos which give the priority ranking of game clock, LED lights, and then horn.

HELP!!!!!!!!
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Old Sun Feb 04, 2007, 11:48am
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Two things came to my mind, should have been an earlier whistle and they should have gone to the monitor to put time on the clock because IMO time ran off after they blew the whistle.
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Old Tue Feb 06, 2007, 05:24am
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Wallace steamed after 'fiasco at Reno'

RENO GAZETTE-JOURNAL
Posted: 2/6/2007


Hawaii basketball coach Riley Wallace called it "the fiasco at Reno."


The ending of the ESPN2-televised Nevada-Hawaii game at Lawlor Events Center was enough out of the ordinary the Western Athletic Conference made a clarification on the officiating call at the end of the Wolf Pack's 69-68 win Saturday night.
After referee Bill Gracey, Brian Sorenson and Kelly Self huddled twice before finally disallowing a basket by Hawaii's Ahmet Gueye with 5.8 seconds left, WAC Commissioner Karl Benson said Monday they got the call correct.
"While I am satisfied the officials got it right I am disappointed that there that there wasn't better communication between them immediately following the play. Better communication would have led to the situation being managed in a more efficient and effective manner."
Wallace made it clear on the WAC coaches weekly conference call that he believed the officials not only got the call wrong, but also should not have waved off P.J. Owsley's putback that was ruled after the buzzer.
"I was very proud of my kids, how they handled the game and stayed there. That's a tough atmosphere," Wallace said. "Hawaii never won (against Nevada in Reno) until that one. I told the guys, 'We did win it.'"
Minutes after the game, Wallace wasn't directly critical of the calls. But he said if the game hadn't been on national television the officials would have counted Gueye's basket, Then Wallace watched the game tape.
"After the game when I reviewed it, the way the calls went down and everything, the officials, it's a tough last 32 seconds when we got the ball," Wallace said. "They made some late calls but as the calls went, the basket (by Gueye) was definitely good.
"Now, if they can go back and say, 'We made a mistake,' they should have called it sooner. Well, they didn't. They made the call so the basket was definitely good."
Originally, Gracey had counted the basket and was going to award Gueye a free throw. But after two meetings, Sorenson made it clear that he had called a non-shooting foul before Gracey called the shooting foul. Benson said it is obvious on tape that Sorenson raised his arm for a foul call and that it was a non-shooting foul.
"Even on the last part, if you have the replay advantage you can see that there was still 0.3 seconds left when the basket went in from Owsley," Wallace said. "There's no way the officials could have changed that one because the monitor at the arena. They probably don't have that (inset game clock). If you have the advantage of it like I do at home and the replay and stop action, the red light on the basket and the shot clock are not in sync. So, actually we won the game twice. We should get two wins for that one and make up for a couple of bad games we had somewhere else."
Benson said the ESPN inset clock doesn't always correctly reflect the official clock.
"We have yet to see a video that would show the clock, which is above the backboard," Benson said. "I can't say what the clock read when the red light went off."
Benson said college basketball rules state that officials should determine the end of the game first by the clock and then the red light."
Benson said he wouldn't comment on Wallace's remarks.
"He's entitled to his opinion," Benson said.
But Benson agreed on Wallace's assertion that time, maybe a second, could have been placed back on the game clock because of the discrepancy in time between Sorenson's initial call when Gueye was fouled and the call by Gracey that had stopped the clock at 5.8 seconds left.
"I didn't ask for more time on the clock because I had other things to think about," Wallace said. "We should have had about 6.8 or so. As it turns out, that would have been the difference on the red light (at the end). Actually, we got screwed twice on it."
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Old Tue Feb 06, 2007, 10:07am
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Video of the play

Here it is. Enjoy the show.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6EwDy0VOio0
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