Free Throw Violation

[ecolintman]

Ball is given to shooter by ref at free throw line . Girl catches ball, bounces it and loses control. She steps in the lane to retreive fumbled ball. It this a free throw violation?

P.S. this was a 10 year old girl.

[BktBallRef]

By rule, yes. The L should whistle the play dead before she can go after the ball.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

By rule, yes. The L should whistle the play dead before she can go after the ball.

Make sure when you use the phrase "by rule" that you are actually right. This is not a violation.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Make sure when you use the phrase "by rule" that you are actually right. This is not a violation.

Tony is actually right. Notice that the case book play, of which he is well-aware, says "the official should sound the whistle to prevent any violations and then start the free throw procedure again."

In the play presented a violation has already occurred prior to the official taking any action. Therefore, by rule, the free thrower has committed violation. Now any decent official is going to bend the rule a bit and simply sound the whistle as quickly as possible and readminister the FT.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Make sure when you use the phrase "by rule" that you are actually right. This is not a violation.

Make sure that you read the case book play cited--9.1.1-- before you make statements like the above.

That case play is a rule. It basically says that the FTshooter going to get the fumbled ball would be committing a violation(as per rule 9-1-7). The official should blow the whistle to prevent a violation, and then re-set the FT before the FT shooter actually commits that violation.

Iow, BktBallRef was completely right in his statement, by rule.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Make sure when you use the phrase "by rule" that you are actually right. This is not a violation.

Make sure you know WTF you're talking about before you disagree with me.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Make sure you know WTF you're talking about before you disagree with me.

How is it a violation? If the free thrower hasn't started the throwing motion it is not a violation, if it was the play would say it was a violation. Where in Case Play 9.1.1 does it say that what happen is a violation???

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

How is it a violation? If the free thrower hasn't started the throwing motion it is not a violation, if it was the play would say it was a violation. Where in Case Play 9.1.1 does it say that what happen is a violation???

I apologize, I missed that she ran after the ball!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

How is it a violation? If the free thrower hasn't started the throwing motion it is not a violation, if it was the play would say it was a violation. Where in Case Play 9.1.1 does it say that what happen is a violation???

If the FT shooter moves to recover the fumbled ball, they will commit a FT violation as per NFHS rule 9-1-7. Case book play 9.1.1 says that you can avoid calling the violation IF you blow your whistle BEFORE the violation is committed. If the FT shooter commits the violation BEFORE you blow your whistle though, then it is too late to re-set the play, by rule.

As Z said above though, don't be a plumber. Just re-set the damn thing- especially with 10 year old kids.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by ecolintman

Ball is given to shooter by ref at free throw line . Girl catches ball, bounces it and loses control. She steps in the lane to retreive fumbled ball. It this a free throw violation?

P.S. this was a 10 year old girl.

The NFHS case play for this is 9.1.1 regardless of what age the players are. Even if the official's are a little slow on the whistle, please use common sense and just give the shooter a replacement throw.

[ecolintman]

"It was a championship junior high school tournament game. 2. We play under the umbrella of the LHSAA/Federation rules. To that end let me quote the rule that applies and the intent behind that rule. Under the Rules Enforcement paragraph of the LHSAA rules book it states "Officials need to be aware that personal interpretations of the rules have a negative impact on the game. The rules are written to provide a balance between offense and defense, minimize risks to participants, promote the sound tradition of the game and promote fair play. Individual philosophies and diviation from the rules as written negatively impact the basic fundamentals and tenants of the rules. The free throw rule is specific in that it is a violation if after receiving and having control of the ball the free thrower has either foot beyond the vertical plane of the edge of the free throw line prior to the basketball entering the basket or hitting the rim of the basket. The bottom line - we are paid to call the game according to the rules that apply."

[Jurassic Referee]

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ecolintman

"It was a championship junior high school tournament game. 2. We play under the umbrella of the LHSAA/Federation rules. To that end let me quote the rule that applies and the intent behind that rule. Under the Rules Enforcement paragraph of the LHSAA rules book it states "Officials need to be aware that personal interpretations of the rules have a negative impact on the game. The rules are written to provide a balance between offense and defense, minimize risks to participants, promote the sound tradition of the game and promote fair play. Individual philosophies and diviation from the rules as written negatively impact the basic fundamentals and tenants of the rules. The free throw rule is specific in that it is a violation if after receiving and having control of the ball the free thrower has either foot beyond the vertical plane of the edge of the free throw line prior to the basketball entering the basket or hitting the rim of the basket. The bottom line - we are paid to call the game according to the rules that apply."

Is that the dialect used in LA?

Here is the response that I would send back:
THE INTENT AND PURPOSE OF THE RULES
The restrictions which the rules place upon the players are intended to create a balance of play; to provide equal opportunity between the offense and the defense; to provide equal opportunity between the small player and tall player; to provide reasonable safety and protection; to create an atmosphere of sporting behavior and fair play; and to emphasize cleverness and skill without unduly limiting freedom of action of individual or team play on either offense or defense.
Therefore, it is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may be intelligently applied in each play situation. A player or a team should not be permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule. Neither should play be permitted to develop which may lead to placing a player at a disadvantage not intended by a rule.
It is the policy of the NFHS Basketball Rules Committee that there be no deviation from the rules unless experimental approval has been granted by the NFHS liaison to the rules committee.

---------------
FREE-THROWER LOSES BALL
9.1.1 SITUATION: A1, at the free throw line to attempt a free throw (a) muffs the pass from the official and it rolls forward; or (b) accidentally drops the ball before the throwing motion is started. RULING: In (a) and (b) the official should sound the whistle to prevent any violations and then start the free throw procedure again.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

FREE-THROWER LOSES BALL
9.1.1 SITUATION: A1, at the free throw line to attempt a free throw (a) muffs the pass from the official and it rolls forward; or (b) accidentally drops the ball before the throwing motion is started. RULING: In (a) and (b) the official should sound the whistle to prevent any violations and then start the free throw procedure again.

I git it, now. It's a rule requiring the prevention of a violation, as opposed to a rule penalizing a violation.
If we employ the accepted slow whistle, the rule goes away and the violation goes with it. It becomes omniabsent.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ecolintman

"It was a championship junior high school tournament game. 2. We play under the umbrella of the LHSAA/Federation rules. To that end let me quote the rule that applies and the intent behind that rule. Under the Rules Enforcement paragraph of the LHSAA rules book it states "Officials need to be aware that personal interpretations of the rules have a negative impact on the game. The rules are written to provide a balance between offense and defense, minimize risks to participants, promote the sound tradition of the game and promote fair play. Individual philosophies and diviation from the rules as written negatively impact the basic fundamentals and tenants of the rules. The free throw rule is specific in that it is a violation if after receiving and having control of the ball the free thrower has either foot beyond the vertical plane of the edge of the free throw line prior to the basketball entering the basket or hitting the rim of the basket. The bottom line - we are paid to call the game according to the rules that apply."

Ask them when the LHSAA's 3-person mechanics are planning of coming out of the early 90s. Their document online still requires the center to be opposite the table at all times and for the foul caller to become the center official. Is that really how they work in LA?

When I lived there, it was all 2-person.