How patient is too patient?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by armymanjones

OK J.R., how do you explain to a coach when he says the man traveled? Are you going to say you let that go since you didn't call the previous travel at the other end?

If you read the OP, the topic starter said there was no travel in his judgment. Secondly, just because a coach thinks there is a travel, does not make it so. I also do not make a habit of explain travels to coaches. So you seem more concerned about what you have to say to a coach than what might be considered consistent throughout the game or calling something that is a minor infraction. Of course that is your right, but that does not mean I have to agree with it.

Peace

[armymanjones]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you read the OP, the topic starter said there was no travel in his judgment. Secondly, just because a coach thinks there is a travel, does not make it so. I also do not make a habit of explain travels to coaches. So you seem more concerned about what you have to say to a coach than what might be considered consistent throughout the game or calling something that is a minor infraction. Of course that is your right, but that does not mean I have to agree with it.

Peace

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(From original post)
I had a situation and am still struggling with how I handled it. I'm lead. Pass comes into low post to A1, who has his back to the basket. Defender B1 jumps and bumps A1, who is not really trying for the basket yet. I hold my whistle...A1 does a good job gathering himself, turns to go to the basket.....and travels

I don't care how a coach, fan, or player feels about me. I care about the game. I give each team a far and impartial chance at winning within the rules of the game. If you feel you need to classify infractions as minor and decide whice infractions to call and which not to so much , it sounds to me like you are helping to decide the outcome of the game. Just an observation, nothing personal

[iref4him]

Originally Posted by armymanjones

I believe basketball is not a non-contact sport.

Bob Herrold said it best.. "Basketball is a non-contact sport with contact!" Therefore, advantage and disadvantage; letting them play; sucking on the whistle to see the whole play --> are what each official are trying to strive for. But if the player would have scored and not traveled, the coach would have not said much. Maybe he would have wanted a three point play then. So long as you stayed consistent with the rest of the game and your partners, you seem to have done the right thing.

[armymanjones]

Originally Posted by iref4him

Bob Herrold said it best.. "Basketball is a non-contact sport with contact!" Therefore, advantage and disadvantage; letting them play; sucking on the whistle to see the whole play --> are what each official are trying to strive for. But if the player would have scored and not traveled, the coach would have not said much. Maybe he would have wanted a three point play then. So long as you stayed consistent with the rest of the game and your partners, you seem to have done the right thing.

But he did travel so what should have been done?

[iref4him]

Originally Posted by armymanjones

But he did travel so what should have been done?

Call the travel. Every little bump and touch is not a foul. If we called every little bump and touch, not much of a game. One thing I know is that the players and "good" coaches know.

I had a game where B1 stoled the ball at midcourt from A1. There was a bumb, I sucked on my whistle. B1 gathered himself and A1 just stood there after the bump. B1 had an uncontested layup for 2 points. Team B's coach looked at me and said "You let the bump go so that we could have the lay up, right?" I said "Yes". He said "Good job, to many officials call it without watching the whole play develop."

[armymanjones]

Originally Posted by iref4him

Call the travel. Every little bump and touch is not a foul. If we called every little bump and touch, not much of a game. One thing I know is that the players and "good" coaches know.

I had a game where B1 stoled the ball at midcourt from A1. There was a bumb, I sucked on my whistle. B1 gathered himself and A1 just stood there after the bump. B1 had an uncontested layup for 2 points. Team B's coach looked at me and said "You let the bump go so that we could have the lay up, right?" I said "Yes". He said "Good job, to many officials call it without watching the whole play develop."

I agree with your situation but when the OP didn't call the travel because of not calling the bump it was not the right thing to do. I would not have called the bump but the travel I would call.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by armymanjones

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(From original post)
I had a situation and am still struggling with how I handled it. I'm lead. Pass comes into low post to A1, who has his back to the basket. Defender B1 jumps and bumps A1, who is not really trying for the basket yet. I hold my whistle...A1 does a good job gathering himself, turns to go to the basket.....and travels

I don't care how a coach, fan, or player feels about me. I care about the game. I give each team a far and impartial chance at winning within the rules of the game. If you feel you need to classify infractions as minor and decide whice infractions to call and which not to so much , it sounds to me like you are helping to decide the outcome of the game. Just an observation, nothing personal

I am glad you care about the game, I care about the game and being consistent and I do not take every single call without consideration of other calls or how the result of something else might have affected the entire play. And if the OP said there was no travel, I am not going to call one with minor contact. It is also called judgment and your judgment might not match mine (which is fine with me). So if you feel you need to call everything that do that. I will call the game that has worked well for me over the years. It has worked out for me quite well.

Peace

[armymanjones]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am glad you care about the game, I care about the game and being consistent and I do not take every single call without consideration of other calls or how the result of something else might have affected the entire play. And if the OP said there was no travel, I am not going to call one with minor contact. It is also called judgment and your judgment might not match mine (which is fine with me). So if you feel you need to call everything that do that. I will call the game that has worked well for me over the years. It has worked out for me quite well.

Peace

JR if you read the original post you will see he said the kid traveled and I say if the kid traveled after the bump not because of the bump and after he gathered himself then I call it. I am reading that the bump was past and the kid gathered himself so now we are ok. Then he traveled. Is this what you read? If so why not call it? If not please explain.

[Ref Daddy]

Basketball fundamentals say "contact is not always a foul".

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by armymanjones

OS I know you are joking but someone else may be confused. You can not justify letting the travel go to "make up" for a no call or even a call you know you missed. You have to call each call seperate from the other. So just putting it out there that I know you're kidding.......right?

Sadly, he ain't kidding at all.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And if the OP said there was no travel, I am not going to call one with minor contact.

The OP said that there WAS a travel. A "no doubt about it" travel! Are you really saying that we should ignore OBVIOUS travels?

[mplagrow]

Look, if it was stated that the travel was a completely separate event from the bump, then they have to be treated as two separate events. If the bump was over and done, and you judged it a no call to play on, great. Forget it, it's done. It should NOT have any bearing on whether you call a travel for A1's next move. If you would have called A1's move a travel 5 minutes ago, it's a travel now. You said yourself it wasn't caused by the contact. Anyone who says ignore the travel because you ignored the contact is encouraging you to be an inconsistent official. That just doesn't make sense. And you don't owe the coach an explanation for every single call or no call in the game. I may have just told him, "No advantage!"

[FrankHtown]

Ok...I'm sorry it wasn't clear....I DID call a travel. At that point, in my opinion, the bump and the travel were two different episodes. That is why the coach asked me if I saw the bump. Yes, I did, but the player didn't, in my opinion, at the time, lose any advantage. He was able to settle, then made a turn to the basket. Then he travelled.

I would have hated to stop the play for contact, when the player had a good opportunity to put the ball in the basket from the low post.

I guess my concern was how do I legitimize to the coach that I passed on the contact, because I thought he did have a good opportunity to score.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

I guess my concern was how do I legitimize to the coach that I passed on the contact, because I thought he did have a good opportunity to score.

You don't have to legitimize to the coach. Keep your responses short and non-confrontational then keep moving:

"Contact was incidental"

"I may have missed something"

"There was no foul there"

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

I had a situation and am still struggling with how I handled it. I'm lead. Pass comes into low post to A1, who has his back to the basket. Defender B1 jumps and bumps A1, who is not really trying for the basket yet. I hold my whistle...A1 does a good job gathering himself, turns to go to the basket.....and travels.

Coach of A as I'm going back up the court asks "Didn't you see him get bumped?" I said "Coach, I was trying to let him play through it, and score a basket." Coach wasn't tickled, but I guess he accepted the answer.

The bump DID NOT cause the travel.

I need some guidance!!!!

Frank, with all due respect, you started three threads in the past three years about having a patient whistle. Is it consuming you?

Honestly, it sounds to me like you're calling your game and you're calling it consistently. Stop worrying about what the coaches are saying. They're going to gripe either way. Continue as you have been, applying advantage/disadvantage and I believe you'll be fine!