granting time-out as player goes oob

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Why does it need a rule? The whistle doesn't make the ball dead -- it's the action on the court that does.

That was my point. Requesting a time-out does not make the ball dead.
Landing out of bounds does.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by just another ref

That was my point. Requesting a time-out does not make the ball dead.
Landing out of bounds does.

Right, but you seem to be missing Rich's point. The TO request came before the ball was dead, and is thus legitimate and should be granted. The rule does not require that the granting of the TO occur before the ball becomes dead.
5-8-3

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Right, but you seem to be missing Rich's point. The TO request came before the ball was dead, and is thus legitimate and should be granted. The rule does not require that the granting of the TO occur before the ball becomes dead.
5-8-3

5-8-3: Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official grants a players/head coach's oral or visual request for a time-out, such request being granted only when:

a. The ball is in control or at the disposal of a player of his/her team.

Time-out occurs when it is granted, not when it is requested.

As written, it does require the granting before the ball becomes dead.

It could easily read, "...such request being granted only when the request is made while the ball is in control or at the disposal of a player of his/her team."

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Time-out occurs when it is granted, not when it is requested.

As written, it does require the granting before the ball becomes dead.

It could easily read, "...such request being granted only when the request is made while the ball is in control or at the disposal of a player of his/her team."

I think that you might be confusing the granting of the TO with my subsequent whistle, hand signal, and announcement. The granting is a mental event that can take place virtually instantaneously with the request. Whistling etc. takes a bit longer.

Same with the issue of a TO just before the opponent steals the ball. FWIW I agree with Rich.

[Adam]

I've whistled time-outs while the ball is in flight for a shot, after 5 seconds have elapsed during a throwin, after the ball gets tied up on the floor, while a pass is in flight, and after a player has stepped out of bounds; all because the time-out was requested while all of the necessary ingredients were in place. Had the head of the state's officials comment only that my partner's whistle was late on a TO request, but otherwise it was valid.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I think that you might be confusing the granting of the TO with my subsequent whistle, hand signal, and announcement. The granting is a mental event that can take place virtually instantaneously with the request. Whistling etc. takes a bit longer.

Same with the issue of a TO just before the opponent steals the ball. FWIW I agree with Rich.

I whistled a coach-requested TO just as a player let go of a 3 that swished. Coach just said, "that always seems to happen" and smiled.

[bigdogrunnin]

If the timeout request was made, and all conditions to LEGALLY request the timeout were present, and the official can verify that the coach of the team in possession of the ball was the person requesting the timeout, why would any official NOT grant it? Just curious.

Just last week (in the same game) I had the exact scenarios Rich and Snaq described. In one, Team A player is trapped in the corner by B1 and B2. Team A coach requests TO. Before my co-official can blow his whistle, there is a steal. TWEET! He gave the TO to Team A. Team B Coach didn't like it, but the request was made and had been granted by the official even though he wasn't able to signal as much until after the steal had been made. In the second situation, Team A player is spotting up for a 3-pt. shot. Coach requests TO. I check to make sure it is the HC, and look for a signal or verbal request. GOT IT! Player shoots the 3-pt shot. TWEET! SWISH! Nothing but net. Me: "No Shot! No Shot! Time out, white!" I wave off the basket, and report the timeout request to the table. Coach understood. He didn't like the fact that HIS request cost his team 3 points (they lost by ONE), but his action determined the outcome. I have to go with what I have at that moment. As an official I can't try to foresee the future, I can only go with the present.

BTW, the timeout request shall be granted as long as the player has control of the ball and his position is legally inbounds. Since his last legal position was inbounds, he is not OOB until he hits the floor OOB. I did have a coach yell at me one night, "this isn't the NBA! He can't do that." My reply, "Coach, timeout Blue!" He wanted to vent, and bait me into a response. He got to vent, but I gave up being a fish a long time ago.

[just another ref]

This has confirmed my idea that this is one of those things where "everybody does it that way," I am still having a problem with the language in the books.

5-8 reads: Time-out occurs.....when an official
1. signals.....
2. stops play
3. grants a .....request
4. responds to the scorer's
signal

The way I read this, it ain't a time-out until we say it is.

This, of course, is as opposed to a foul or violation, which cause the ball to become dead when they occur. 6-7

Why does 6-7 not include: ball becomes dead when a player/head coach requests a time-out. or: an official recognizes the request for a time-out which has been properly made by a player or head coach.

Is there anything written anywhere (nfhs interpretation, old casebook play) which supports the position of everybody else in the world except me on this issue?