Granting TO Fed. Rules

[Stripes1950]

How would you handle this situation? A scores. B is bringing ball up the court. Team A Coach tells Old L/New T that he wanted a time out immediately following the made FG. Grant it or not?

[Mark Dexter]

Is the ball dead?

If the ball is live, does team A have player and team control?


"Sorry, coach - we didn't hear/see your request. Be a little bit louder next time or have one of your players on the court request it."

[JRutledge]

You cannot grant a timeout when the other team is in possession of the ball. The coach's request came too late. It is really just that simple.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Bob Gingerich
How would you handle this situation? A scores. B is bringing ball up the court. Team A Coach tells Old L/New T that he wanted a time out immediately following the made FG. Grant it or not?

Too late to grant it now.

[Stripes1950]

Fed Rule 6-7-1 "A ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when: Art. 1...A goal, as in 5-1, is made. Rule 5-8-3b allows for the granting of a time out when the ball is dead. My question is do you grant a time out if a coaches request is not recognized until the opposition has possession of the ball?

[rockyroad]

And Mark, JRut, and Tony all answered your question...nope. Once the other team has the ball and is ready to throw it in, no time-out...

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Bob Gingerich
Fed Rule 6-7-1 "A ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when: Art. 1...A goal, as in 5-1, is made. Rule 5-8-3b allows for the granting of a time out when the ball is dead. My question is do you grant a time out if a coaches request is not recognized until the opposition has possession of the ball?

No. It's too late.

[JRutledge]

The coach needs to get the attention of an official before B gets the ball.

Peace

[mick]

Originally posted by Bob Gingerich
How would you handle this situation? A scores. B is bringing ball up the court. Team A Coach tells Old L/New T that he wanted a time out immediately following the made FG. Grant it or not?

Bob,
Not enough information for me except to say , "Oh. How would I have known that?".
Are you implying that he had asked another official prior to talking to New Trail?
mick

[Stripes1950]

Thank you very much for the replies. This is exactly how I did handle this situation at the time. I am now attempting to get a low rating removed from my record because the coach cited this instance as a poor officiating performance on my part. This was his write up on me to the state association: "In the JV contest, we made a bucket coach called time-out when ball went through hoop. Bob let FA inbound ball, when I stood up and said my coach called T/O he said FA already had possession, when In fact FA kid was standing in paint waiting to take it out of bounds." It is obvious that the time out request was not recognized by any of the three officials on the court, otherwise, we would have immediately granted it. And this is a HS varsity coach.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Bob Gingerich
This was his write up on me to the state association: "In the JV contest, we made a bucket coach called time-out when ball went through hoop.
Bob let FA inbound ball, when I stood up and said my coach called T/O he said FA already had possession, when In fact FA kid was standing in paint waiting to take it out of bounds." It is obvious that the time out request was not recognized by any of the three officials on the court, otherwise, we would have immediately granted it. And this is a HS varsity coach.

Here's how I would answer this:

First of all, coaches cannot "call" timeout. They can only request it. Only officials can "call" timeout. This is an important distinction, especially in this case because the burden is on the coach to make sure the official(s) recognize the request. If he is not loud enough and/or is not in a sight line of an official, he cannot expect them to know he is requesting one.

Second, if A1 (using standard terminology) was OOB holding the ball for the throwin, or even if he was not holding it yet but the ball was at his team's disposal, it is too late to grant a timeout for team B if the request came at that time.

Third, the fact that "this is a HS varsity coach" certainly does not mean that person has any understanding of the rules whatever.

[JRutledge]

Bob,

I would not even worry about it. Coaches all the time complain about things that are not even rules or do not understand the proper procedures. If the coach did not get your attention, that is his problem. This rule has taken away all common sense on the behalf of coaches. They have forgotten that players are what we are looking at. Not only that, there have been many rulings from the NF directly that makes it clear to everyone that coaches are not just to be "heard" in their request.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Bob Gingerich
Thank you very much for the replies. This is exactly how I did handle this situation at the time. I am now attempting to get a low rating removed from my record because the coach cited this instance as a poor officiating performance on my part. This was his write up on me to the state association: "In the JV contest, we made a bucket coach called time-out when ball went through hoop. Bob let FA inbound ball, when I stood up and said my coach called T/O he said FA already had possession, when In fact FA kid was standing in paint waiting to take it out of bounds." It is obvious that the time out request was not recognized by any of the three officials on the court, otherwise, we would have immediately granted it. And this is a HS varsity coach.

I'd reply thusly:

The coach is correct that I made an error in this situation. As described, the V coach stood up to talk to an official during the JV game in which he was not the head coach. As soon as this happened, I should have issued a technical foul. I regret the error.

[Stripes1950]

Thanks for the reply Bob. I haven't teed a coach in a couple of years. I try to work things out. Some coaches are just impossible to please, though. We had a couple who were ignorant of the rules but thought that they were gurus of basketball this year. Included in the write sent to the state assoc he said that I was "arrogant and just not a good ref." I think he mistakes confidence for arrogance.

[Nevadaref]

I too would like to thank Bob Jenkins for his astute post. When I read your clip from the coach's letter, I was also wondering why is this guy standing up and talking to the official during the game, if he isn't the head coach? I would have whacked him without a second thought.

Originally posted by Bob Gingerich
I haven't teed a coach in a couple of years. I try to work things out. Some coaches are just impossible to please, though.

First you absolutely MUST come to understand that officials are not out there to please the coaches, the players, or the fans. Once you firmly grasp this you will become a much better official.

So why are the officials out there?
We are on the court to be the only unbiased arbiters of the game. We are not concerned with who wins or loses, but only fairness and safety. Everyone else in that gym cares about winning, and therefore cannot look at the game objectively.

In short, if the coach isn't happy with your performance, that's too bad for him. You should worry more about whether the coach shows you the proper respect than if he likes you.

And even if the coaches get to rate the officials in your area and that determines postseason selection, the vast majority of good coaches will vote for the officials that they know are fair and can't be influenced by the home crowd or guy on the other bench, not the guy who gives them a call to make them happy. It is these latter officials that the coaches are actually scared of because they worry that the opposing team will be able to get that crucial call with some pointed screaming, yelling, and pleading.