What's the rule - A technical or not??

Originally Posted by amcginthy

Thank you, I appreciate the comment. I hate not knowing a rule - even worse, thinking I know it and don't have it write. So, let me ask one more question - occured in the same game...

Ball is being inbounded and one of my players breaks the plane and touches the ball before it enter the court... first violation. She was given a "T" foul. I asked the ref about a warning - my understanding of the rule was that the first violation was a warning, and subsequent violations would be a "T". The ruling the ref gave me was that the warning is for breaking the plane, but contact with the ball is an automatic "T"...

Thanks.

If she just breaks the plane, then it is only a warning (if it is the first one). If she makes contact with the ball it is an automatic T and it counts as a first warning also in case there is another boundary plane violation.

[amcginthy]

Originally Posted by PYRef

If she just breaks the plane, then it is only a warning (if it is the first one). If she makes contact with the ball it is an automatic T and it counts as a first warning also in case there is another boundary plane violation.

Again...thanks to all...

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by PYRef

If she just breaks the plane, then it is only a warning (if it is the first one). If she makes contact with the ball it is an automatic T and it counts as a first warning also in case there is another boundary plane violation.

Don't forget - with the new rule in place this season, it also counts as the warning for any of the four delay situations.

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by amcginthy

Thank you, I appreciate the comment. I hate not knowing a rule - even worse, thinking I know it and don't have it write. So, let me ask one more question - occured in the same game...

Ball is being inbounded and one of my players breaks the plane and touches the ball before it enter the court... first violation. She was given a "T" foul. I asked the ref about a warning - my understanding of the rule was that the first violation was a warning, and subsequent violations would be a "T". The ruling the ref gave me was that the warning is for breaking the plane, but contact with the ball is an automatic "T"...

Thanks.

Now the ruling is slightly different if the Thrower had released the ball. Upon release, the defender is allowed to break the boundary plane and touch the ball without violating ANY rule.
Violation and fouls (as described) only apply if the thrower still has possession/control of the ball.

[Back In The Saddle]

Just for completeness sake, there's one more aspect you should know. It the defender breaks the plane and fouls the thrower, it's an automatic intentional foul.

[crazy voyager]

I want to go back to the original question for a sec:

Greetings all - this is my first post. What is the rule for a player continuing to play once over the 5 personal foul limit? I was coaching this weekend against a team that had a girl who had five fouls - the official score book (home team) said it was only four. Later, the girl got another foul - then it was realized that she actually had six fouls - which was agreed by the official scorer. What happens here? Should this be a technical foul? I know that playing a disqualified player is a direct technical against the coach, but she hadn't been disqualified yet - although she should have been. I thought it should have been a technical - but not sure here... just looking for an answer in case something like this happens again.

In FIBA (wich is international and european rules) this would be a bench technical to the coach (when a player commits his sixth foul the coach gets it insted).

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by crazy voyager

I want to go back to the original question for a sec:



In FIBA (wich is international and european rules) this would be a bench technical to the coach (when a player commits his sixth foul the coach gets it insted).

Let me get this straight. In international competition, if the official book only has four fouls for a player, and that player is allowed to continue playing by the officials, when it's discovered that the official book is wrong, it's a T on the coach? Is this some kind of disincentive to keep the home (presumably the official book is the home book in most cases?) bookkeeper from fiddling the numbers?

[Stat-Man]

I believe there used to be a case play where a player continued to participate after receiving a 5th foul before the situation is discovered. If I remember correctly, the ruling is that the player is to be replaced at the next dead ball after he/she is discovered to have fouled out, but there is no further penalty since the player was not yet officially disqualified. ("Officially"meaning the table informs the referee and the referee then informing the coach).

[ronny mulkey]

P.S. Scorebooks are to be kept in INK to help with no unsporting beheavior.[/QUOTE]

Wow! Been calling a long time and have never seen a book completed, or attempted, in ink?

Mulk

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

P.S. Scorebooks are to be kept in INK to help with no unsporting beheavior.

Wow! Been calling a long time and have never seen a book completed, or attempted, in ink?

Mulk[/QUOTE]

Come to one of my games. Depending on the level, you can expect to see my game sheet have two or four colors of ink, one for each period (not including overtime). The official scorer at another local high school does the same.

I do it because:

(1) My dad was a scorer in a game where the visiting coach was arguing about team fouls, and after the game, the AD suggested he use either different colors or opposite hash marks ( / vs. \ ) for each half.

(2) When compiling totals for the quarter/half and game, it's easier to sum up the like-colored symbols.

But I have personally not heard of this being a requirement by rule.

[bronco]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

Wow! Been calling a long time and have never seen a book completed, or attempted, in ink?

Mulk

Come to one of my games. Depending on the level, you can expect to see my game sheet have two or four colors of ink, one for each period (not including overtime). The official scorer at another local high school does the same.

I do it because:

(1) My dad was a scorer in a game where the visiting coach was arguing about team fouls, and after the game, the AD suggested he use either different colors or opposite hash marks ( / vs. \ ) for each half.

(2) When compiling totals for the quarter/half and game, it's easier to sum up the like-colored symbols.

But I have personally not heard of this being a requirement by rule.[/QUOTE]

My mom does the book at my old high school, and this is the way they do it, different colors each quarter. It can help if there is a discrepancy, although hopefully that isn't something anybody has to deal with.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

Come to one of my games. Depending on the level, you can expect to see my game sheet have two or four colors of ink, one for each period (not including overtime). The official scorer at another local high school does the same.

Interesting! I usually just do the opposite angled hash marks and (in an NCAA book) write the time for everything.

[amcginthy]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Now the ruling is slightly different if the Thrower had released the ball. Upon release, the defender is allowed to break the boundary plane and touch the ball without violating ANY rule.
Violation and fouls (as described) only apply if the thrower still has possession/control of the ball.

Really - So if the thrower releases the ball, and a defender breaks the boundary to touch the ball, there is NO violation??

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by amcginthy

Thank you, I appreciate the comment. I hate not knowing a rule - even worse, thinking I know it and don't have it write. So, let me ask one more question - occured in the same game...

Ball is being inbounded and one of my players breaks the plane and touches the ball before it enter the court... first violation. She was given a "T" foul. I asked the ref about a warning - my understanding of the rule was that the first violation was a warning, and subsequent violations would be a "T". The ruling the ref gave me was that the warning is for breaking the plane, but contact with the ball is an automatic "T"...

Thanks.

If they touch the ball, it is a T. The official was correct.

Mregor

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by amcginthy

Greetings all - this is my first post. What is the rule for a player continuing to play once over the 5 personal foul limit? I was coaching this weekend against a team that had a girl who had five fouls - the official score book (home team) said it was only four. Later, the girl got another foul - then it was realized that she actually had six fouls - which was agreed by the official scorer. What happens here? Should this be a technical foul? I know that playing a disqualified player is a direct technical against the coach, but she hadn't been disqualified yet - although she should have been. I thought it should have been a technical - but not sure here... just looking for an answer in case something like this happens again.

Thanks.

Anthony
E. Russell Hicks Lady Rebels

Coach, since this was not an unsporting act, but merely do to a scoring error, there is no penalty. Here is the rule straight from the book that states what to do in such a case.

NFHS 2-11-11
Note 2. The procedure if a player who has committed his/her fifth foul continues to play because the scorer has failed to notify the official is as follows: As soon as the scorer discovers the irregularity, the game horn should be sounded after, or as soon as, the ball is in control of the offending team or is dead. The disqualified player must be removed immediately. Any points which may have been scored while such player was illegally in the game are counted. If other aspects of the error are correctable, the procedure to be followed is included among the duties of the officials.