What's the rule - A technical or not??

[amcginthy]

Greetings all - this is my first post. What is the rule for a player continuing to play once over the 5 personal foul limit? I was coaching this weekend against a team that had a girl who had five fouls - the official score book (home team) said it was only four. Later, the girl got another foul - then it was realized that she actually had six fouls - which was agreed by the official scorer. What happens here? Should this be a technical foul? I know that playing a disqualified player is a direct technical against the coach, but she hadn't been disqualified yet - although she should have been. I thought it should have been a technical - but not sure here... just looking for an answer in case something like this happens again.

Thanks.

Anthony
E. Russell Hicks Lady Rebels

[illinoisbluezeb]

Since no one from the table notified the officials it is as she had 4 fouls, even though she had 5 then 6. What happened to your score keeper? Usually there are visiting & home books, and since no one let the officials know the player had 5 fouls nothing can be done. It is a clerical error, correct it as soon as it is discovered.

The penalty is for playing after being DQ'ed.

[tomegun]

No. A technical foul should not have been called.

[amcginthy]

Originally Posted by illinoisbluezeb

Since no one from the table notified the officials it is as she had 4 fouls, even though she had 5 then 6. What happened to your score keeper? Usually there are visiting & home books, and since no one let the officials know the player had 5 fouls nothing can be done. It is a clerical error, correct it as soon as it is discovered.

The penalty is for playing after being DQ'ed.

Our scorekeeper and I brought it to the attention of the REFs, but they said that since there was a dicrepency in the books, that the official book (home) was what they would go by (fair enough, mistakes happen). But then, when the 5th / 6th foul was picked up, somehow, the official book realized something, and notified the official that it was actually 6 fouls.

In the heat of the game, I thought it should be a T (of course I did), then thinking about it, I thought probably not.... But, your comment about a clerical error made me think back - what about an incorrect number in the book - that's a clerical error - but results in an Administrative T... (go easy on me guys - I'm not a REF, I'm a coach these aren't the easiest rules to interpret - even if you do know the rules - at least not for me )

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by amcginthy

Our scorekeeper and I brought it to the attention of the REFs, but they said that since there was a dicrepency in the books, that the official book (home) was what they would go by (fair enough, mistakes happen). But then, when the 5th / 6th foul was picked up, somehow, the official book realized something, and notified the official that it was actually 6 fouls.

Coach, have your scorekeeper sit with the official scorekeeper and you will never have this problem again.

In the heat of the game, I thought it should be a T (of course I did), then thinking about it, I thought probably not.... But, your comment about a clerical error made me think back - what about an incorrect number in the book - that's a clerical error - but results in an Administrative T... (go easy on me guys - I'm not a REF, I'm a coach these aren't the easiest rules to interpret - even if you do know the rules - at least not for me )

This is a great question and there were some heated discussions about how to handle this type of thing related to excessive timeouts in the last 2 or 3 weeks. Team A takes an excessive timeout, is assessed a T but afterwards it's discovered that team A did have a timeout remaining afterall.

Some kind soul will find it & post a link.

An incorrect number in the book is a clerical error *only* if you can show that you supplied the correct number prior to the 10 minute pre-game mark. If you can't do this then it's not a clerical error.

[illinoisbluezeb]

Originally Posted by amcginthy

But, your comment about a clerical error made me think back - what about an incorrect number in the book - that's a clerical error - but results in an Administrative T... (go easy on me guys - I'm not a REF, I'm a coach these aren't the easiest rules to interpret - even if you do know the rules - at least not for me )

The wrong number in the book happend before the game not during the game. You had plenty of time to get the names & numbers correct. Clerical errors during the game are different a little more going on and a lot less time.

P.S. Scorebooks are to be kept in INK to help with no unsporting beheavior.

[amcginthy]

Thanks all...

I appreciate the info...

Anthony

[tomegun]

The old rules interpreter in Maryland used to meet with the coaches and give them a test for reasons like this. It can be sort of a humbling experience when you are a coach and fail a test about the rules. Of course, by the time the season started the coaches were their usual selves.

[illinoisbluezeb]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Coach, have your scorekeeper sit with the official scorekeeper and you will never have this problem again.

This is a great question and there were some heated discussions about how to handle this type of thing related to excessive timeouts in the last 2 or 3 weeks. Team A takes an excessive timeout, is assessed a T but afterwards it's discovered that team A did have a timeout remaining afterall.

Rule-2 Section-10 Article-4 Correctable error Awarding of unmerited free throw(s) and activity during it execpt for unsporting, flagrant, intentional or technical fouls shall be canceled

[Adam]

Just to add, she's not disqualified until the refs tell the coach. So, by rule, you can't call them for a T until she plays after the coach has been notified.
I don't T clerical errors. If you supplied correct information to the bench and they screw it up in the transfer, I'll let it go. If you just failed to give them all the players' numbers or didn't note the starters; that's not a clerical error.

[rainmaker]

And, coach, I also want to say that I appreciate your asking the question as an honest question, and not just to try to "get back" at a ref for something. Some coaches come here legitimately to ask for information, like you did. But often, they're just in the mood for "fashing" and it gets unpleasant. With your attitude, you'll always be welcome here.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by illinoisbluezeb

Rule-2 Section-10 Article-4 Correctable error Awarding of unmerited free throw(s) and activity during it execpt for unsporting, flagrant, intentional or technical fouls shall be canceled

Uh-oh...now you've done it

I agree, some don't :shrug:

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by amcginthy

But, your comment about a clerical error made me think back - what about an incorrect number in the book - that's a clerical error - but results in an Administrative T... (go easy on me guys - I'm not a REF, I'm a coach these aren't the easiest rules to interpret - even if you do know the rules - at least not for me )

FYI, a true clerical error (i.e., where the scorer messes up) is not penalized. If you submitted your roster correctly, and the scorer accidentally wrote in 23 as 32, there (by rule) is no penalty to you.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by illinoisbluezeb

P.S. Scorebooks are to be kept in INK to help with no unsporting beheavior.

Just wondering, is this your rule or a state/conference guideline? I've been doing the book for 10 years now and have ALWAYS used pencil (this from a guy who does his crossword puzzle in ink).

[amcginthy]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

And, coach, I also want to say that I appreciate your asking the question as an honest question, and not just to try to "get back" at a ref for something. Some coaches come here legitimately to ask for information, like you did. But often, they're just in the mood for "fashing" and it gets unpleasant. With your attitude, you'll always be welcome here.

Thank you, I appreciate the comment. I hate not knowing a rule - even worse, thinking I know it and don't have it write. So, let me ask one more question - occured in the same game...

Ball is being inbounded and one of my players breaks the plane and touches the ball before it enter the court... first violation. She was given a "T" foul. I asked the ref about a warning - my understanding of the rule was that the first violation was a warning, and subsequent violations would be a "T". The ruling the ref gave me was that the warning is for breaking the plane, but contact with the ball is an automatic "T"...

Thanks.