force out call ?

[mick]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The official did not call a FORCE OUT!!!

...And that is what Scrapper1 noted.
It isn't verbalized, ...yet it is what it is.

[Jimgolf]

We know that sometimes officials will call the ball OOB off of B1 when A1 was the last to touch the ball because B1 made contact with A1. The theory seems to be that a foul call doesn't make the game better, since the result is basically the same: A gets the ball for an inbounds play. This is in line of the philosophy many officials have of let the players decide the game. Other examples of this include not calling the 5th foul on star players when there is another player near enough to charge with the foul, not calling palming violations when there is no defensive pressure, not calling 3 second violations until 5 or 6 seconds have passed, etc.

However, B's team foul count and B1's player foul count are not increased. In essence, this is giving an unfair advantage to B. Officials should call the foul and not worry about "letting the player slide". He's earned his foul by pushing A1 OOB; give it to him.

I remember when the NBA's force-out call went away; there is no reason to revive it either in the NBA or especially in levels where it was never a rule in the first place.

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

We know that sometimes officials will call the ball OOB off of B1 when A1 was the last to touch the ball because B1 made contact with A1. The theory seems to be that a foul call doesn't make the game better, since the result is basically the same: A gets the ball for an inbounds play.

I guess I'm not following you on this one. Incidental contact happens all the time between dribbler/defender. If there is an interrupted dribble that goes OOB off A1's foot, it's B's ball. If contact is severe enough it's a foul. Call it the way it is.

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

This is in line of the philosophy many officials have of let the players decide the game. Other examples of this include not calling the 5th foul on star players when there is another player near enough to charge with the foul, not calling palming violations when there is no defensive pressure, not calling 3 second violations until 5 or 6 seconds have passed, etc.

OK, now you're really losing me. How do you let the players decide the game if you're intentionally not calling fouls on the player who committed the foul?

[Mark Padgett]

Guys - bottom line:

A. Billy Packer is an idiot
B. There's no such call as a force out
C. All of the above

[Nevadaref]

I have been exposed to this philosophy of officiating.
Some local veterans have told me that when there is contact, but not hard enough to warrant a foul and the player loses the ball out of bounds, they simply give the ball back to that team. They do not call a foul; they just intentionally get the OOB call wrong. Many of them refer to it as "saving a foul."

I have decided over the last couple of years that I don't care for it.

Therefore, I will decide if the contact is sufficient for a foul, and if so, I'll call that. However, if I decide that there isn't a foul, I'm going to award the ball OOB to the team that was NOT the last to touch it.

It's not my job to "save fouls" for the players.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by PYRef

I guess I'm not following you on this one. Incidental contact happens all the time between dribbler/defender. If there is an interrupted dribble that goes OOB off A1's foot, it's B's ball. If contact is severe enough it's a foul. Call it the way it is.



OK, now you're really losing me. How do you let the players decide the game if you're intentionally not calling fouls on the player who committed the foul?

See the discussion of "saving a foul" in the other posts in this thread. I'm not advocating this, just acknowledging that it exists.

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

See the discussion of "saving a foul" in the other posts in this thread. I'm not advocating this, just acknowledging that it exists.

I've read them, I just don't agree with them. If it's not enough to call the foul, then I'm not going to distort the rules (like giving an OOB ball back to the team that's not entitled). Your post also mentioned deliberately passing off a foul onto someone else instead of the star player. I'm not even going there.

Minor contact on a passer that would kill a fast break and take away the significant advantage of the offense? Yeah, that I would probably let go. Even by rule you're allowed to disregard an obvious non-contact violation of the defense that is committed solely to take away the other team's obvious advantage, ie: a defender purposely leaving the court to kill the play.
Although this sitch entails minor contact, I probably wouldn't call it if I don't think it puts the offending player at a disadvantage.