T the Varsity coach

[chrs_schuster]

I had a boys JV game last night. Midway through the 3rd Q, I call a foul on A1. I hear a coach yelling and screaming after I report it. I look its NOT the head coach. I wait a few seconds to see if hes going to calm down he doesnt so I whacked him. Turns out hes the Varsity coach, He stands, yelling at me. Says he wants an explaination. I calmly told him if he didnt sit he would be gone for 2 games and that I only speak to the head coach. He sits down and a little bit later disappears to warm up his team. My question is, does he lose his coaching box privileges for the Varsity game since I T'ed him in the JV game. Or does it just count toward his 2t's for the Varsity game?

[Adam]

His Ts in the JV game have no bearing on the varsity game. None. New game, and the rule states a coach is disqualified after two technicals in one game.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by chrs_schuster

My question is, does he lose his coaching box privileges for the Varsity game since I T'ed him in the JV game. Or does it just count toward his 2t's for the Varsity game?

No and no.

All games are independant and nothing ever carries forward from one game to the next.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

All games are independant and nothing ever carries forward from one game to the next.

From the NFHS perspective, yes. On a state level, though, it might. I ejected the varsity coach from a freshman game last year. By CT rules, he should have sat out the varsity game that night.

(He also shouldn't have come back in during the freshman game, but that's a different story.)

[stmaryrams]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

No and no.

All games are independant and nothing ever carries forward from one game to the next.

I did have a similar sitch with a varsity coach at a jv game. My partner had a call which got the bench in an uproar. He called a violation for crossing the restraining line. Only problem was there was no restraining line. We have several gyms in the city league that use them but this one does not need one. There was a tape line about 5 feet parallel to the side line, dashed for some kind of gym class thing and my partner called that line. Funny in pregame, captains and coaches meetings we never discussed this because it wasn't a restraining line. Partner makes the call, bench erupts and this guy comes out of the stands to complain on the edge of the floor. I come over to help calm everyone and tell this guy to get back in the stands. He says "I'm the varsity coach" so I "T" him up as he is a part of the staff. I then told him to sit down so he can do his game tonight. He says it doesn't carry over and I replied that it will if you are thrown out of the gym for the night. He relented and sat down. I never could get a good explaination from my partner why he called what he did and I've always tried to avoid working with this guy since.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by stmaryrams

Partner makes the call, bench erupts and this guy comes out of the stands to complain on the edge of the floor. I come over to help calm everyone and tell this guy to get back in the stands. He says "I'm the varsity coach" so I "T" him up as he is a part of the staff.

Small problem.

If he came out of the stands, and he wasn't on the bench or listed as being one of the JV coaches, then he is a fan. He isn't part of the JV coaching staff per se; he's part of the Varsity coaching staff. Completely different animals. It's usually a last resort to throw "T"s at fans anyway. I'd have have just told him to get back in the stands and stay in the stands. If he gives you any crap, get game management to get him out of of the gym. Stop the game until he is gone. If he is game management, do the same thing. Tell him that unless he leaves, the game will be suspended. Not forfeited, suspended. If that happens, write everything up for the league/state/your assignor.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Small problem.

If he came out of the stands, and he wasn't on the bench or listed as being one of the JV coaches, then he is a fan. He isn't part of the JV coaching staff per se; he's part of the Varsity coaching staff. Completely different animals. It's usually a last resort to throw "T"s at fans anyway. I'd have have just told him to get back in the stands and stay in the stands. If he gives you any crap, get game management to get him out of of the gym. Stop the game until he is gone. If he is game management, do the same thing. Tell him that unless he leaves, the game will be suspended. Not forfeited, suspended. If that happens, write everything up for the league/state/your assignor.

Why would you suspend the game rather than forfeit it? (Just interested because this happened to me last season.)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Why would you suspend the game rather than forfeit it? (Just interested because this happened to me last season.)

The problem was caused by a person that really wasn't a member of either team. If you forfeit the game, you're penalizing a team for something that was beyond their ability to control. The game may(and probably will) be forfeited anyway, but leave that decision up to the proper governing body, be it that particular league or the state. Just write it up and send it in. Btw, you still start the next game, even if the same goober is there as the head coach. But the first time he acts up, buh-bye. And if he refuses to leave, then you can forfeit this time,

Make sense?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Why would you suspend the game rather than forfeit it? (Just interested because this happened to me last season.)

Care to share, Mark?

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Small problem.

If he came out of the stands, and he wasn't on the bench or listed as being one of the JV coaches, then he is a fan. He isn't part of the JV coaching staff per se; he's part of the Varsity coaching staff. Completely different animals. It's usually a last resort to throw "T"s at fans anyway. I'd have have just told him to get back in the stands and stay in the stands. If he gives you any crap, get game management to get him out of of the gym. Stop the game until he is gone. If he is game management, do the same thing. Tell him that unless he leaves, the game will be suspended. Not forfeited, suspended. If that happens, write everything up for the league/state/your assignor.

IMO, he made himself part of the JV staff when he played the "I'm the Varsity Head Coach card." He was trying to use his "staff" authority to influence the officials. Just my 2 cents.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ChrisSportsFan

IMO, he made himself part of the JV staff when he played the "I'm the Varsity Head Coach card." He was trying to use his "staff" authority to influence the officials. Just my 2 cents.

How can he make himself part of the JV staff by saying he's NOT part of the JV staff? He just told you he was on the Varsity staff, not the JV staff, didn't he?

Sure, he was trying to use his school affiliation to try and intimidate the officials. That school affiliation doesn't make him part of the JV team, though. He still has to be treated as a "fan" rules-wise. He wasn't on the bench, which means that he sureasheck can't logically be defined as being "bench personnel" under rule 4-34-2. And "bench personnel" in that rule specifically includes "coaches".

Btw, if you did make the mistake of "T"ing up the Varsity coach coming out of the stands using your logic, you are aware also that you then have to give the JV head coach an indirect "T" too, I hope. The JV head coach is responsible for all "bench personnel" as per rule 10-4. If that indirect technical foul is the one that then puts the JV coach over his limit and gets him tossed, I wanna be there when you try and justify that ejection also.

Never do what can't be explained logically in a post-game report.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Small problem.

If he came out of the stands, and he wasn't on the bench or listed as being one of the JV coaches, then he is a fan. .

Maybe where you are but that's not the interpretation here. As stmaryrams stated, he is part of the basketball staff and is expected to conduct himself according to the rules at all times. If he comes out of the stands on me, one T and he's done. And we will having backing from the local and state associations if that happens.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

What I won't do, because there is absolutely NO rules backing to do so, is penalize that "fan" as being part of the JV coaching staff. He might be "inserting himself as staff", but that doesn't make him a JV coach, and you can't penalize him as such, rules-wise.

Again, never do what can't be explained logically or can't be justified by the rules. And trying to morph a fan coming out of the stands into a bench coach fails both of those tests imo.

So you're telling us that a T cannot be assessed to a team for the behavior of a team supporter? I don't think so my geriatric partner.

If he's a coach from that school, I have no problem sticking him in the a$$ and chunking him. And I am backed by rule.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Maybe where you are but that's not the interpretation here. As stmaryrams stated, he is part of the basketball staff and is expected to conduct himself according to the rules at all times. If he comes out of the stands on me, one T and he's done. And we will having backing from the local and state associations if that happens.

So you're telling us that a T cannot be assessed to a team for the behavior of a team supporter? I don't think so my geriatric partner.

Um, no. I never said that anywhere. I said verbatim- "It's usually a last resort to throw "T"s at at fans anyway". Basically, that's exactly what case book play 2.8.1 recommends--"this authority must be used with extreme caution and discretion". I agree with the direction that the FED has given us.

And I 'll stick to my previous statements too. Someone who is in the stands is NOT a bench coach, by rule. Unless the Varsity coach is specifically listed on the score sheet as an assistant coach, he's a fan.

If you consider the Varsity coach as part of the JV staff, then are you prepared to immediately "T" up the varsity coach when you see him up in the stands? Even before he says something? After all, if you want to insist that he's an assistant JV coach, then he's illegally off the bench as per rule 10-4-4, isn't he?

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by stmaryrams

I did have a similar sitch with a varsity coach at a jv game. My partner had a call which got the bench in an uproar. He called a violation for crossing the restraining line. Only problem was there was no restraining line. We have several gyms in the city league that use them but this one does not need one. There was a tape line about 5 feet parallel to the side line, dashed for some kind of gym class thing and my partner called that line. Funny in pregame, captains and coaches meetings we never discussed this because it wasn't a restraining line. Partner makes the call, bench erupts and this guy comes out of the stands to complain on the edge of the floor. I come over to help calm everyone and tell this guy to get back in the stands. He says "I'm the varsity coach" so I "T" him up as he is a part of the staff. I then told him to sit down so he can do his game tonight. He says it doesn't carry over and I replied that it will if you are thrown out of the gym for the night. He relented and sat down. I never could get a good explaination from my partner why he called what he did and I've always tried to avoid working with this guy since.

It's not our job to enforce the coach's sitting out the next game. At least in WV. I had a tournament game on a Friday and ejected a coach. I called our governing association and asked the interpreter who told me to simply write a report if he coaches and let the association deal with it - but I cannot stop him from coaching.

[mick]

Originally Posted by chrs_schuster

I had a boys JV game last night. Midway through the 3rd Q, I call a foul on A1. I hear a coach yelling and screaming after I report it. I look its NOT the head coach. I wait a few seconds to see if hes going to calm down he doesnt so I whacked him. Turns out hes the Varsity coach, He stands, yelling at me. Says he wants an explaination. I calmly told him if he didnt sit he would be gone for 2 games and that I only speak to the head coach. He sits down and a little bit later disappears to warm up his team. My question is, does he lose his coaching box privileges for the Varsity game since I T'ed him in the JV game. Or does it just count toward his 2t's for the Varsity game?

In our area, there are few Assistant JV coaches. Are you certain that he was not just a fan?