Varsity Coach on JV bench

Rookie · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 01:42pm

I'm sure this has been discussed before. How do you deal with a Varsity Coach who wanders on and off the bench of his JV team, who did not stop griping to me the whole time? Is he considered an Asst Coach?

I know this is wrong, but I played the politics game. I badly want to move up to varsity, and I wasn't about to give him a T for just griping at me. He never crossed the line in anything he said.

Tim Roden · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 02:17pm

A Varsity coach who is on the bench for the JV game is by rule an assistant coach. He cannot talk to you. If he is in the stands then he is a fan. He can scream all he wants there and he gets ignored.

Air JC · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 02:29pm

Same type of situation with a JV game. Team A had 3 assistant coaches on the bench. I would guess that 2 of those 3 were fathers of the players and part time howlers. Team A took a timeout and one of the assistants asked me if I could give him a rule clarification. I asked if he was the head coach, he said no, I told him that if the head coach wants to use his timeout by talking to me then that's fine, but I won't answer everyones questions just because you have a seat on the bench. This brings up a question I have, is there a limit on the number of assistants, trainers, managers, etc. that can sit on the bench?

Bart Tyson · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 02:49pm

Rookie, I believe in the long run you will get ahead by taking care of business. Give him the stop sign and if he continues give him the T. he will probably respect you more. These coaches know and want officials who take care of business.
Air JC, I think on a time out if an asst. ask in a respectfull manor, I would answer the question. Remember, asst. do become head coaches. sometimes.

zebraman · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 02:53pm

"hey coach..I know you're the head coach of the varsity, but there can only be one head coach allowed per game. In this game, the JV coach is the head coach so you are essentially seat-belted except for cheering the kids on."

If you are nice about it and cheerful, he'll obey you and also respect your rule knowledge. If he continues to get up and griping, you have no choice but to "T" him up because it's the rule and a tool you have to control the game. I have to say, I feel sorry for refs who work in areas where coaches get evaluation input. The situation you described is the exact reason why it doesn't work.

Z

Rookie · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 03:33pm

Every time he spoke to me, I gave him the stop sign with my hand, that is all I every did. I debated saying something to him or the coach, but I decided the cons out weighed the pros, in this situation.

BktBallRef · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 03:34pm

If he's part of the basketball program, then he's always a coach. If he's in the stand yelling things that he would get a T for while on the bench, I'll warn game management to take care of him. If they don't, I will.

We had a similiar situation in football where the varsity coach was sitting in the stands at directing comments to our referee by name. Our booking supervisor instructed us to flag him for USC and eject him if it ever occurred again.

Bart Tyson · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 03:43pm

Rookie, Only one stop sign per game. Let your partners know he has been warned. Ideally one of your partners will give the T. But, if you are the one standing closest when he warrants the T then whackem.

daves · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 08:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman
"hey coach..I know you're the head coach of the varsity, but there can only be one head coach allowed per game. In this game, the JV coach is the head coach so you are essentially seat-belted except for cheering the kids on."

If you are nice about it and cheerful, he'll obey you and also respect your rule knowledge. If he continues to get up and griping, you have no choice but to "T" him up because it's the rule and a tool you have to control the game. I have to say, I feel sorry for refs who work in areas where coaches get evaluation input. The situation you described is the exact reason why it doesn't work.

Z

I like your approach to this situation. I had a situation a number of years ago. Varsity coach sitting on bench during JV game. Varsity coach griped about me not calling traveling on the other team in front of his bench in the 1st half. Next time down the court, one of his players travels right in front of me. I call it. He blows a gasket. I give him the T. He keeps going and he gets the second T. He's ejected but doesn't leave right away. I informed him that if he doesn't leave immediately then his team will forfeit. He does leave and the game continues.
After the game, I get my shower and go to the concession stand for a soda and a bag of popcorn. The ejected coach was there and he approached me, wanting to talk about it some more. I told him that the game was over and his team won convincingly. He wanted to know my name so he could report me to my commissioner. I gave him my name as well as the name and number for my commissioner. Our state association has a rule that if a coach or player is ejected then they sit for the next game. This coach was on the bench for the varsity game. It wasn't my position to keep him off the bench for the game. The ejection report had not been filed yet and I did not make an issue of it. Should I have handled this situation differently?

Oz Referee · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 09:16pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
If he's part of the basketball program, then he's always a coach. If he's in the stand yelling things that he would get a T for while on the bench, I'll warn game management to take care of him. If they don't, I will.

We had a similiar situation in football where the varsity coach was sitting in the stands at directing comments to our referee by name. Our booking supervisor instructed us to flag him for USC and eject him if it ever occurred again.

Can someone please explain how you can give a technical foul to a spectator? This is something we cannot do in FIBA, and to be honest I have never understood the concept of assessing a foul to someone that is not on the scoresheet.

Mark Dexter · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 11:15pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Oz Referee

Can someone please explain how you can give a technical foul to a spectator? This is something we cannot do in FIBA, and to be honest I have never understood the concept of assessing a foul to someone that is not on the scoresheet.

Yes, you can T up a fan/spectator, but you could also call a multiple foul.

The T is charged to the team. NF 2-8-1: The officials shall penalize unsporting conduct by any player, coach, substitute, team attendant or follower.

BktBallRef · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 11:21pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Oz Referee
Can someone please explain how you can give a technical foul to a spectator? This is something we cannot do in FIBA, and to be honest I have never understood the concept of assessing a foul to someone that is not on the scoresheet.

He's not a spectator. He's a head coach in the basketball program for one of the teams on the floor. He's held to a higher standard than fans are.

I had an AD stand behind the scorer's table and yell that we needed to control the game. I quickly told him to sit down and be quiet or he would be gone.

daves · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 15, 2002, 11:04am

I read in the Portland Oregonian this a.m. where the head coach for the Oregon City girls varsity team was ejected from the stands during the JV game for comments made to an official. The paper said that the official was going to give a T but changed it to an ejection because he was considered a spectator. The official said that he couldn't coach in the varsity game because of the ejection. The ejected coach made a cell phone call to the commissioner of the Portland official's association and he stated that the official was wrong and he could(and did) coach in the varsity game. I wonder if the state association would have come to the same conclusion.

rainmaker · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 15, 2002, 04:45pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim Roden
If he is in the stands then he is a fan. He can scream all he wants there and he gets ignored.

Until this weekend in Oregon City!! The Varsity coach was sitting in the stands and received a T and was ejected by a ref, during the JV game. Believe me, it wasn't me. This man is very dignified as a coach, and although he occasionally complains to the refs, he has had few or no
T's. And never ejected. Apparently, what he said wasn't all that bad either, although I don't know exactly what it was. But it just goes to show that fans don't always get ignired!

rainmaker · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 15, 2002, 04:50pm

Quote:

Originally posted by daves
I wonder if the state association would have come to the same conclusion.

If Howard (commissioner in the Portland area) says the rule is a certain way, it is. Howard is never wrong about the rules. Howard wrote the rules, for pete's sake.