Girls v Boys

[Junker]

I don't think girls require a different kind of skill, you just have to look at advantage/disadvantage in a different light. To me this is the same as going from a 4A boys game to a 2A boys game. You're not going to be able to call the contact exactly the same way because of the athletic talent of the players.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Junker

I don't think girls require a different kind of skill, you just have to look at advantage/disadvantage in a different light. To me this is the same as going from a 4A boys game to a 2A boys game. You're not going to be able to call the contact exactly the same way because of the athletic talent of the players.

Okay, it's wording then. Looking at A/D in a different light looks to me like a different skill. I think you'll agree with me that you can't just see it as "more of same". Going from girls to boys does require some tweaking of the attention, and the decisions.

[Junker]

Agreed, but this is something we have to do as officials any time we work a game regardless of gender. You can't walk in and call the JV game exactly as you call the following varsity game. I just don't see this as a gender issue. It has more to do with what level of talent you are used to working.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Junker

Agreed, but this is something we have to do as officials any time we work a game regardless of gender. You can't walk in and call the JV game exactly as you call the following varsity game. I just don't see this as a gender issue. It has more to do with what level of talent you are used to working.

No, it's really not the same. It's not so much a gender issue in one sense, but girls really do play a different style of game from boys. Yea, there are adjustments from JV to Var boys, but those adjustments are really much less than the adjustments from a good girls game to a good boys game, both varsity. You can see this if you watch college games on TV. Girls just do have more contact, and they play a lot less in the air. There are far more judgments to make -- was that a foul or not? Is that an illegal advantage? Did that bump impede the guard? it's much, much less obvious.

[deecee]

Julie -- there is no difference between officiating a boys and a girls game really -- you call fouls based on advantage/disadvantage and a great boys official should also be a great girls official. The fact that they do a hack job reflects more on their character than their ability to officiate.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by deecee

Julie -- there is no difference between officiating a boys and a girls game really -- you call fouls based on advantage/disadvantage and a great boys official should also be a great girls official. The fact that they do a hack job reflects more on their character than their ability to officiate.

I couldn't agree more with this post. Well said.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by deecee

Julie -- there is no difference between officiating a boys and a girls game really -- you call fouls based on advantage/disadvantage and a great boys official should also be a great girls official. The fact that they do a hack job reflects more on their character than their ability to officiate.

Would you also say it works the other way as well - can a great girl's official also be a great boy's official?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Would you also say it works the other way as well - can a great girl's official also be a great boy's official?

maybe i should have covered all my @#$@#$ angles again -- I don't differentiate between boys and girls officials. IF you are a good official it won't take you long -- maybe the first 2 possessions -- to figure out what kind of contact can be passed and what needs to be called. Thats why you ARE A GOOD OFFICIAL. We are not curing disease or poverty--we are using judgement and you either have it or not.

The only real caveat would be someone who has only done boys or girls games their whole careers -- it might take them a game or 2 but nevertheless I think an attribute of a great official is the ability to adjust to the level and style of game you are officiating that day.

[tomegun]

I live in a state where we do double-headers and I think (HS level) an official should take pride in doing a good job regardless. IMO, it has more to do with doing the right thing for the game. I do men's college and have worked more girls high school games this year so far than I did in the last three combined. I don't think there are any absolutes except working to do the best job when an official accepts an assignment.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by deecee

maybe i should have covered all my @#$@#$ angles again

Why is it a problem to cover all your angles? Saying what you mean is a valuable skill, not a pia.

Originally Posted by deecee

-- I don't differentiate between boys and girls officials.

Unfortunately, undifferentiation between these officials may lead to not differentiating between the games themselves, which leads to doing a poor job, imho.

Originally Posted by deecee

IF you are a good official it won't take you long -- maybe the first 2 possessions -- to figure out what kind of contact can be passed and what needs to be called. Thats why you ARE A GOOD OFFICIAL.

This can be true if you've done the prerequisite study and practice, but it is by no means automatic. A person can be a very bad boys' official, and do a great job in a girls' game if they've never seen that the two are much different.

Originally Posted by deecee

We are not curing disease or poverty-

which is relevant, how?

Originally Posted by deecee

-we are using judgement and you either have it or not.

I strongly disagree with this. Judgemnt can be learned. I'd bet that at least half of the top college refs have had to learn and re-learn and re-learn again to have judgment and to make the adjustments necessary as they moved up. "Instincts" are nice, but certainly not necessary!

Originally Posted by deecee

The only real caveat would be someone who has only done boys or girls games their whole careers -- it might take them a game or 2

I'd venture it would take a lot longer, depending on how long their careers have been.

Originally Posted by deecee

but nevertheless I think an attribute of a great official is the ability to adjust to the level and style of game you are officiating that day.

I think that's probably a good generalization, but that greatness is based on experience and study, and can't be learned in one setting.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by deecee

maybe i should have covered all my @#$@#$ angles again

You did a fine job of covering all those @#$@#$ angles.

The reason I asked is because I know officials that consider the girl's game to be "inferior", and by association, the officials that mainly work girl's games to be "inferior" to officials that only work boys. I agree that if you are a good official, you should be able to adapt to the game at hand, whether it's JH to varsity, or girls to boys.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by deecee

you call fouls based on advantage/disadvantage and a great boys official should also be a great girls official. The fact that they do a hack job reflects more on their character than their ability to officiate.

Wow, that's an incredibly harsh generalization. I think it more likely that a good boys' official simply doesn't realize that the amount of contact needed to gain an unfair advantage in a girls' game may be significantly less than in a boys' game.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Okay, it's wording then. Looking at A/D in a different light looks to me like a different skill. I think you'll agree with me that you can't just see it as "more of same". Going from girls to boys does require some tweaking of the attention, and the decisions.

The way I look at it, the skill set is the same - what's different is how you apply those skills. Even played under the same rules as we do here in OR, there are very significant differences in how the game is played when you compare boys vs girls, even at the higher levels. I agree with Juulie that at the HS level an official can be good at both, but to truly understand the nuances involved you have to work both....just my $0.02.......

[rockyroad]

There is no reason why a good official can't be good at both boy's and girl's games at the HS level...in WA, there are some minor rule differences, but that's no big deal. The association I belong to is one group that assigns both sides, so working both is easy - that's not the case elsewhere in the state. In my experience, the ones who perpetuate this myth are the ones who worry that they might lose some games if people came from the "other side"...

At the NCAA level, I don't think it's a good idea. There are some minor rule differences also, but the POE's and the philosophy are very different...the only conference I know that uses the same officials for both sides is the Big Sky, and most of the Sky women's games I have been to have been blood-baths...

The biggest difference I see between the two (boys vs. girls, mens vs. womens) is that the male side of the game requires more of us physically, while the womens side requires more of us mentally...mens games tend to be faster-paced and involve more running (altho some womens games are catching up in that regard as teams score more and run more), and the womens games involve having to make more decisions and think more about whether or not to blow the whistle...sweeping generalizations mind you, but based on my experiences.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

There is no reason why a good official can't be good at both boy's and girl's games at the HS level...in WA, there are some minor rule differences, but that's no big deal. The association I belong to is one group that assigns both sides, so working both is easy - that's not the case elsewhere in the state. In my experience, the ones who perpetuate this myth are the ones who worry that they might lose some games if people came from the "other side"...

At the NCAA level, I don't think it's a good idea. There are some minor rule differences also, but the POE's and the philosophy are very different...the only conference I know that uses the same officials for both sides is the Big Sky, and most of the Sky women's games I have been to have been blood-baths...

The biggest difference I see between the two (boys vs. girls, mens vs. womens) is that the male side of the game requires more of us physically, while the womens side requires more of us mentally...mens games tend to be faster-paced and involve more running (altho some womens games are catching up in that regard as teams score more and run more), and the womens games involve having to make more decisions and think more about whether or not to blow the whistle...sweeping generalizations mind you, but based on my experiences.

which by the way, are quite extensive.