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Old Tue Sep 26, 2006, 08:45pm
oc oc is offline
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Boys tryout for girls teams.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/st...rnak-boys.html


"As two Winnipeg sisters find out Tuesday if they've made the boys' hockey team at their high school, their recent human-rights victory has spurred boys to try out for girls' sports teams...

"He described one call "from one young fellow who [was] just very honest, and he said: 'You know what? We're not good enough to make the varsity basketball team. But the girls' basketball have a smaller ball and we think we could make that team.'

"He said, 'I don't know if we would start but we just love basketball and want to play and we think we could make the girls' team,' " Glimcher said."
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Old Tue Sep 26, 2006, 10:28pm
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These two girls, in the name of equality, may have just set the world of women's sports back 40 years....or perhaps even destroyed it permanantly.

I'm suprised someone didn't stop the silliness once they realized that equality means equality, not just equal for one group but not the other. Do they really want to dissolve the gender lines in sports? What team, in a competitive league, in most sports would ever choose a full roster of women when they could get several guys that would almost always be faster, stronger, ...

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Old Tue Sep 26, 2006, 10:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oc
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/st...rnak-boys.html


"As two Winnipeg sisters find out Tuesday if they've made the boys' hockey team at their high school, their recent human-rights victory has spurred boys to try out for girls' sports teams...

"He described one call "from one young fellow who [was] just very honest, and he said: 'You know what? We're not good enough to make the varsity basketball team. But the girls' basketball have a smaller ball and we think we could make that team.'

"He said, 'I don't know if we would start but we just love basketball and want to play and we think we could make the girls' team,' " Glimcher said."
If there's an equivalent program for boys, they can't try out. At least, not in the US. Too bad if they can't compete. I'm not saying that's my opinion. That's the law. If there were a girls' hockey program, the girls couldn't try out for the boys' team. It would be interesting to see if the boys could convince someone to let them onto a girls' volleyball team, where the school did not have a similar program for boys. I expect in that case, they might have some legal grounds.
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Old Tue Sep 26, 2006, 11:09pm
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Although I have different feelings about individual sports such as golf and tennis, team sports, so long as there's a gender equivalent team should remain gender exclusive. It just is not the right atmosphere for there to be a mixed gender environment on a sports team. Definitely not on a scholastic or collegiate sports team.

Also, I don't officiate soccer, but I understand from a buddy who does NCAA soccer that in HS, whenever a girl plays on a boys team due to not having a girls team to play on, that the rules for the game change, as slide tackling is no longer permitted in the game, although it is allowed in both mens and womens soccer. Too many safety issues here.

However, I do think women should have the right to try to play professional sports at any level so long as they can compete. They should be able to do this because of the extra exposure of the NBA versus the WNBA for instance. However, they'd have to be able to compete. Just my two cents.
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Old Tue Sep 26, 2006, 11:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
If there's an equivalent program for boys, they can't try out. At least, not in the US. Too bad if they can't compete. I'm not saying that's my opinion. That's the law. If there were a girls' hockey program, the girls couldn't try out for the boys' team. It would be interesting to see if the boys could convince someone to let them onto a girls' volleyball team, where the school did not have a similar program for boys. I expect in that case, they might have some legal grounds.
That's correct. Here, if there's a boys basketball team, then the boys cannot try out for the girls' team. If there's a girls hockey team, they cannot go out for the boys team. There's been some issues when a girl wants to play baseball. But to my knowledge, so attempts have been rebuffed because softball is available. The courts have sided on softball being the equivalent of baseball.

Under NCHSAA rules, if a boy were to join a girls volleyball team, the team would be allowed to compete during the regular season. However, they would not be eligible for the regular season or post season titles nor would they be eligible for the playoffs.
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Old Tue Sep 26, 2006, 11:23pm
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Originally Posted by BktBallRef
That's correct. Here, if there's a boys basketball team, then the boys cannot try out for the girls' team. If there's a girls hockey team, they cannot go out for the boys team.
That is precisely the policy that a court (in Winnipeg, Can.) deemed discriminatory.

I can only imagine the mess that will develop if it stands.
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Old Wed Sep 27, 2006, 12:06am
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In the past few years, there have been a few girls who turned out for boys wrestling teams at a few schools. One football player too if I remember right. A boy also turned out for the girls volleyball team at one school. It always makes for a big sports story in the newspaper and then fades away.
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Old Wed Sep 27, 2006, 01:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust
That is precisely the policy that a court (in Winnipeg, Can.) deemed discriminatory.

I can only imagine the mess that will develop if it stands.
Sheez, Camron, relax! People didn't think the country would survive women voting, and it's made it 80 years so far. I doubt one legal ruling that you don't agree with in Winnipeg will be the end of life as we know it...
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Old Wed Sep 27, 2006, 01:46am
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Originally Posted by SMEngmann
Also, I don't officiate soccer, but I understand from a buddy who does NCAA soccer that in HS, whenever a girl plays on a boys team due to not having a girls team to play on, that the rules for the game change, as slide tackling is no longer permitted in the game, although it is allowed in both mens and womens soccer. Too many safety issues here.
Your buddy is 100% WRONG!

I'm a NFHS soccer referee, an NCAA AR, and a USSF referee.
Two girls played on my HS team years ago as there were no girls teams in the state at that time. The rules didn't change at all.

I have seen co-ed adult leagues which do not allow slide tackling or males to challenge when females have the ball.
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Old Wed Sep 27, 2006, 01:51am
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Originally Posted by BktBallRef
Under NCHSAA rules, if a boy were to join a girls volleyball team, the team would be allowed to compete during the regular season. However, they would not be eligible for the regular season or post season titles nor would they be eligible for the playoffs.
Two of my friends decided to push this issue when we were in HS. NV did not have boys volleyball at the time, so they went out for the girls team. They attended all of the preseason tryouts and were clearly good enough to play. The coach even said so and stated this during the hearing before the state office.
They lost that battle with the state office and decided not to go to court.

NV now has boys volleyball in Las Vegas, but not in the rest of the state.
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Old Wed Sep 27, 2006, 07:25am
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I am in Winnipeg. The ruling from an independent arbitrator was to apply only to this situation of High School Boys Hockey. Although she stated this in her ruling Manitoba High School Athletic Association has received several calls from boys wanting to try out for girls teams. IMO, I believe this ruling was one for feminism and it was not one against discrimination. When you see all the facts and reasons for denying the Pasternaks tryouts, it is obvious the school was trying to protect them (from injury and/or humiliation) and their girls program.

Update ... The 2 girls were cut from the boys try-outs. They state they will not play for the schools girls team.


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Old Wed Sep 27, 2006, 08:46am
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I guess when they mean sports equality , then I guess the boys will be having a field day in the locker room.... Oh yea!
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Old Wed Sep 27, 2006, 11:26am
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Originally Posted by rainmaker
Sheez, Camron, relax! People didn't think the country would survive women voting, and it's made it 80 years so far. I doubt one legal ruling that you don't agree with in Winnipeg will be the end of life as we know it...
Juulie, I think you misunderstand me. I think this ruling (as it stands) can in no way be beneficial to women's sports or women in general. If the gender designations for sports teams is eliminated, I think that opportunities for women will suffer as men would also be allowed on women's teams.

Given the genetic differences, do you really think that the very best women could compete head-to-head against even the 2nd tier of men in physical sports where speed, height, and/or strength are critical elements.

I'm all for promoting womens sports and opportunities for women. In fact, I ran a church league for several years where I made great efforts in to ensure that the women had the same opportunities to play as the men....putting more effort into that than running the men's events. I had a lot of feedback from several of the women who were appreciative of my efforts...because no one else in my position before me had even tried to establish sports for the women.
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Old Wed Sep 27, 2006, 11:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust
Juulie, I think you misunderstand me. I think this ruling (as it stands) can in no way be beneficial to women's sports or women in general. If the gender designations for sports teams is eliminated, I think that opportunities for women will suffer as men would also be allowed on women's teams.

Given the genetic differences, do you really think that the very best women could compete head-to-head against even the 2nd tier of men in physical sports where speed, height, and/or strength are critical elements.

I'm all for promoting womens sports and opportunities for women. In fact, I ran a church league for several years where I made great efforts in to ensure that the women had the same opportunities to play as the men....putting more effort into that than running the men's events. I had a lot of feedback from several of the women who were appreciative of my efforts...because no one else in my position before me had even tried to establish sports for the women.
Camron, I don't think you were being anti-women's lib or anything so politically incorrect. You are nothing if not PC. I just think that to say this would develop into a mess is over-reacting. Mess doesn't need the help of some judge in Winnipeg. It can happen all by itself.
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Old Wed Sep 27, 2006, 11:45am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
People didn't think the country would survive women voting, and it's made it 80 years so far.
The jury is still out on that one imo.
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