Girls v Boys

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Junker

Agreed, but this is something we have to do as officials any time we work a game regardless of gender. You can't walk in and call the JV game exactly as you call the following varsity game. I just don't see this as a gender issue. It has more to do with what level of talent you are used to working.

No, it's really not the same. It's not so much a gender issue in one sense, but girls really do play a different style of game from boys. Yea, there are adjustments from JV to Var boys, but those adjustments are really much less than the adjustments from a good girls game to a good boys game, both varsity. You can see this if you watch college games on TV. Girls just do have more contact, and they play a lot less in the air. There are far more judgments to make -- was that a foul or not? Is that an illegal advantage? Did that bump impede the guard? it's much, much less obvious.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

There is no reason why a good official can't be good at both boy's and girl's games at the HS level...in WA, there are some minor rule differences, but that's no big deal. The association I belong to is one group that assigns both sides, so working both is easy - that's not the case elsewhere in the state. In my experience, the ones who perpetuate this myth are the ones who worry that they might lose some games if people came from the "other side"...

At the NCAA level, I don't think it's a good idea. There are some minor rule differences also, but the POE's and the philosophy are very different...the only conference I know that uses the same officials for both sides is the Big Sky, and most of the Sky women's games I have been to have been blood-baths...

The biggest difference I see between the two (boys vs. girls, mens vs. womens) is that the male side of the game requires more of us physically, while the womens side requires more of us mentally...mens games tend to be faster-paced and involve more running (altho some womens games are catching up in that regard as teams score more and run more), and the womens games involve having to make more decisions and think more about whether or not to blow the whistle...sweeping generalizations mind you, but based on my experiences.

which by the way, are quite extensive.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Would you also say it works the other way as well - can a great girl's official also be a great boy's official?

maybe i should have covered all my @#$@#$ angles again -- I don't differentiate between boys and girls officials. IF you are a good official it won't take you long -- maybe the first 2 possessions -- to figure out what kind of contact can be passed and what needs to be called. Thats why you ARE A GOOD OFFICIAL. We are not curing disease or poverty--we are using judgement and you either have it or not.

The only real caveat would be someone who has only done boys or girls games their whole careers -- it might take them a game or 2 but nevertheless I think an attribute of a great official is the ability to adjust to the level and style of game you are officiating that day.

[tomegun]

I live in a state where we do double-headers and I think (HS level) an official should take pride in doing a good job regardless. IMO, it has more to do with doing the right thing for the game. I do men's college and have worked more girls high school games this year so far than I did in the last three combined. I don't think there are any absolutes except working to do the best job when an official accepts an assignment.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by deecee

maybe i should have covered all my @#$@#$ angles again

Why is it a problem to cover all your angles? Saying what you mean is a valuable skill, not a pia.

Originally Posted by deecee

-- I don't differentiate between boys and girls officials.

Unfortunately, undifferentiation between these officials may lead to not differentiating between the games themselves, which leads to doing a poor job, imho.

Originally Posted by deecee

IF you are a good official it won't take you long -- maybe the first 2 possessions -- to figure out what kind of contact can be passed and what needs to be called. Thats why you ARE A GOOD OFFICIAL.

This can be true if you've done the prerequisite study and practice, but it is by no means automatic. A person can be a very bad boys' official, and do a great job in a girls' game if they've never seen that the two are much different.

Originally Posted by deecee

We are not curing disease or poverty-

which is relevant, how?

Originally Posted by deecee

-we are using judgement and you either have it or not.

I strongly disagree with this. Judgemnt can be learned. I'd bet that at least half of the top college refs have had to learn and re-learn and re-learn again to have judgment and to make the adjustments necessary as they moved up. "Instincts" are nice, but certainly not necessary!

Originally Posted by deecee

The only real caveat would be someone who has only done boys or girls games their whole careers -- it might take them a game or 2

I'd venture it would take a lot longer, depending on how long their careers have been.

Originally Posted by deecee

but nevertheless I think an attribute of a great official is the ability to adjust to the level and style of game you are officiating that day.

I think that's probably a good generalization, but that greatness is based on experience and study, and can't be learned in one setting.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by deecee

maybe i should have covered all my @#$@#$ angles again

You did a fine job of covering all those @#$@#$ angles.

The reason I asked is because I know officials that consider the girl's game to be "inferior", and by association, the officials that mainly work girl's games to be "inferior" to officials that only work boys. I agree that if you are a good official, you should be able to adapt to the game at hand, whether it's JH to varsity, or girls to boys.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Larks

So - there it is.....discuss. Are you able to choose? Would you want to choose? Do you agree with the premise that you can be good at one generally but not both?

I will put it this way. In the area I live, it is easier to get a varsity girl's game than it is to work a boy's varsity game. Usually the younger officials will get many more varsity girl's games or opportunities than Boy's opportunities. Or many of the officials that work girl's basketball are older and on the down side of their career. These are not my words; this is what many officials tell people why they work girl’s basketball. Of course there are solid officials that work both, but and do so with very little problems. The reason I do not work girl's basketball is mainly because I call a pure advantage/disadvantage game which seems to get me in a lot of trouble on the girl's side. The expectation on the girl's side does not like the same kind of contact. If a girl goes to the floor, someone really gets upset if there is not a foul called. If the same thing happens on the boy's side, they get upset if you make a call just because someone went to the floor (talking in general of course). So for me and many others it is not very easy to transition.

Peace

[blindzebra]

The games are different, how I work them isn't.

It still comes down to judgment and advantage/disadvantage.

I find that far too many officials approach the girls game with the attitude that I wouldn't call this in a boys game, but I better in a girls game before they even see the play through...let them play and what you find is that the girls play better when you let them play the same way you do the boys.

[Johnny Ringo]

To me, and it is my opinion, basketball is basketball. To my best guess, in 16 years of calling high school ball, it is close to 50/50 for me when it comes to boys and girls games.

I honestly feel that a good official, or one who is confident in their abilty to watch a game and understand what is a foul, what is a violation and what is taking place on the court - could call any game. How about a co-ed game? Could you work a game like that and simply look at the players, as if they were a basketball player and not male or female?

Could you determine if the male gained an advantage on the female? Or if the female was in LGP when the male made a move into the lane.

This has been an interesting read, that's for sure.

If I leaned one way, I would have to say the girls game may be a bit tougher to call - but not by much - simply because you have a few more awkward athletes ... but, basketball is basketball and the rule book is about A1, A2, B1 or B2 and not men and women.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Okay, it's wording then. Looking at A/D in a different light looks to me like a different skill. I think you'll agree with me that you can't just see it as "more of same". Going from girls to boys does require some tweaking of the attention, and the decisions.

The way I look at it, the skill set is the same - what's different is how you apply those skills. Even played under the same rules as we do here in OR, there are very significant differences in how the game is played when you compare boys vs girls, even at the higher levels. I agree with Juulie that at the HS level an official can be good at both, but to truly understand the nuances involved you have to work both....just my $0.02.......