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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 15, 2006, 08:32am
PYRef
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Question In your primary??

I'm curious about everyones feelings about calling violations/fouls in your partner's primary. The thread about the travel call got me thinking about this. From reading these threads it appears that there are several people who feel it is wrong and get downright pi55ed when it happens. Some have even said there is no way they would call something in their partner's primary even if they knew the partner missed it.
Frankly I disagree with this position. I obviously don't advocate ball watching and realize it is imperative to good officiating to maintain off-ball coverage, but one of the general principles outlined in the NFHS Officials Manual states:

Cooperation: Each official must give full cooperation to coworkers and to the assistant officials. Neither official is limited to calling fouls or violations in their own area of the court. Each official should call fouls wherever they occur and be prepared to help the other official at all times.

So what's the general consensus here?
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Old Fri Dec 15, 2006, 08:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PYRef
So what's the general consensus here?
Why would you think there is one?

My opinion: There's a difference between "oh, my" and "Oh my God". Get the latter, leave the former.
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Old Fri Dec 15, 2006, 08:42am
PYRef
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I should rephrase that, because you're right, there will never be a consensus.

So what is everyones opinion??

Last edited by PYRef; Fri Dec 15, 2006 at 09:01am.
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Old Fri Dec 15, 2006, 08:43am
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Stay in your primary unless you see an elephant in your partners primary - even then you need to 110% sure it is an elephant before you go get in your partners area.

I went and got one last night and I am sure it is going to turn out to only be Hippo when I look at it on film - I am going to see the defender flop - but the angle I had across the lane from the slot the offensive player pushed off I gave the lead the chance then I blew it (literally) - was it a foul yes - was it a game interupter that I should have passed on - yes.

So be very very careful - you are hunting elephants.
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Old Fri Dec 15, 2006, 08:59am
Huck Finn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PYRef
I should rephrase that, because your right, there will never be a consensus.

So what is everyones opinion??
Please tell me you didn't just do that!

Most veterans will realize that there are times when you have to call what you have to call. When someone talks about getting calls right, like this thread, IMO they are ballwatching and want validation for that practice. Most games do not require calling out of your area just like most games do not include a false double flagrant technical or other plays that are rare.
Two questions for the OP:
1. What level do you currently call?
2. How many times do you call across the paint during a game?

I don't ask those questions to put you on the spot. I ask because, if you are working two-man JV games (this is just what I believe) you can relax a little because you have bigger primaries with more dual areas and you shouldn't be worried about all of this anyway. If you are working three-man and you call across the lane several times a game (again what I believe) you should probably be across the lane and/or you are a ball watcher.
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Last edited by tomegun; Fri Dec 15, 2006 at 09:11am.
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Old Fri Dec 15, 2006, 09:02am
PYRef
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Mr. Annoying Grammar Guy strikes again! My bad, even the best slip up sometimes!
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Old Fri Dec 15, 2006, 09:13am
Huck Finn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PYRef
So what is everyone's opinion??
I missed that one!
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Old Fri Dec 15, 2006, 09:18am
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In the two man game, you can get into trouble looking into the lane and calling fouls. Worked with a guy last year who did that a few times during the game, double whistle, both had foul on same person. Never ended up being a problem, but a blarge could come up where the play should have been L's. Could also have foul on two different players. Should you call a multiple foul then, even when T was out of his primary and L had the play?
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Old Fri Dec 15, 2006, 09:22am
Huck Finn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukealex
In the two man game, you can get into trouble looking into the lane and calling fouls. Worked with a guy last year who did that a few times during the game, double whistle, both had foul on same person. Never ended up being a problem, but a blarge could come up where the play should have been L's. Could also have foul on two different players. Should you call a multiple foul then, even when T was out of his primary and L had the play?
The same thing can happen in a three man game and should be part of the pregame. Awareness can work a lot of this out. I think us high school officials really need to work on our awareness to keep certain situations from happening.
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Old Fri Dec 15, 2006, 09:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun
The same thing can happen in a three man game and should be part of the pregame. Awareness can work a lot of this out. I think us high school officials really need to work on our awareness to keep certain situations from happening.
We high school officials....

When Mr. Annoying Grammar Guy slips up, he has to be held to account.
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Old Fri Dec 15, 2006, 09:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
We high school officials....

When Mr. Annoying Grammar Guy slips up, he has to be held to account.
Dang it! Doh!
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Old Fri Dec 15, 2006, 09:34am
sj sj is offline
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.....it appears that there are several people who feel it is wrong and get downright pi55ed when it happens.

It doesn't bother me if a partner makes a call in my area. Unless it's really wrong.

Also, I had a guy in a pre-game once say that under no circumstances was I supposed to call anything in his area. And you could tell he meant it. He kind of scared me. : > ) We weren't one minute into the game and I was at trail. There was an obvious travel by A1 in my partners primary and I had a view as I was looking nearby and I knew he might have been blocked out. But I left it alone. I was at trail and standing right in front of coach B. Coach B let me have it with both barrels. After that I didn't care what my partner had said. I didn't care about what he said because suddenly I no longer cared if I ever worked with the guy again.

Last edited by sj; Fri Dec 15, 2006 at 09:37am.
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Old Fri Dec 15, 2006, 09:41am
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I call HS JV through D III college and AAU in the off season - this was a varsity HS 3 man crew - two D III officials and a junior college official - this call comes on a secondary break - with one match up in my primary and it was a secondary defender (from my primary match up) who steped in to try and take the charge as the offensive player drove to the hoop.

Last edited by OHBBREF; Fri Dec 15, 2006 at 05:07pm.
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Old Fri Dec 15, 2006, 10:32am
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I think Bob has it right with oh my, and how did you not see THAT! Except in transition and when the ball is on the baseline opposite the lead, I work really hard to make sure I'm not looking at the ball (as lead), so I usually only have a vague feeling that something was missed.

I'm much more likely to get the feeling my partner's calling violations too quickly. For example, last week I had a partner I would swear was calling traveling for lifting the pivot foot. And indeed, he called a traveling violation 5 feet in front of me from across court during an interuppted dribble!
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Old Fri Dec 15, 2006, 10:43am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PYRef
I'm curious about everyones feelings about calling violations/fouls in your partner's primary.... From reading these threads it appears that there are several people who feel it is wrong and get downright pi55ed when it happens.
I've had some recent experience with this on the court, and commented here earlier this week. Maybe I'm one of those you think are really upset when it happens to me. Well, I was upset not really that the calls were in my primary, but that the calls were wrong, I clearly saw the play, and it happened many times.

Calling out of your primary, and having your primary called by others, is going to happen. After all, we have primary and secondary coverage areas. There are no prohibited areas. It only bothers me when it is clear that my partner is never off-ball, or that he whistles a call I got a great look at, and I passed on it.

I'm not going to take a call out of primary unless I know that when we get back to the locker room my partner says, "Thanks for getting that one for me". If it's not a good angle for me, or I question it, no way do I whistle out of primary.
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