When does it become your primary...

[ronny mulkey]

In our pre-game yesterday, involving 12 officials by the way, we had a spirited discussion that boiled down to:

When do you assume the lead primary responsibilities( specifically,on ball coverage) on the other side of the lane as/after you rotate over to ball side?

1. Do you referee where you came from? If so, until exactly what point?

2. During your rotation, let's say 1 step past the fartherest lane line, do you go on ball? Or, do you let the C stay with a play on the ball?

3. Do you stay off ball but pick up a competitive matchup "in front" of you and stay with that matchup until when....

Our discussion led to several different answers. I would love to hear what you experts think on this matter.

Mulk

[zebraman]

You cross over to help the center official....not to take their matchup away.

As you cross (and after you arrive), you pick up the matchup that needs to be watched. The matchup that the center has is already being watched so that isn't the one that you would take.

Z

[mick]

Originally posted by zebraman
You cross over to help the center official....not to take their matchup away.

As you cross (and after you arrive), you pick up the matchup that needs to be watched. The matchup that the center has is already being watched so that isn't the one that you would take.

Z

That works for me, zebraman.

The cross over is there to help with the *next play*, and not to seize the existing match-up which the partner *already owns*.
mick

[ChuckElias]

I agree with Z, but I'm not very good at following that advice. The fact is that I often initiate the rotation b/c I see that matchup or imminent drive and so I tend to focus on it as I rotate. I know this is incorrect, but I have a hard time not officiating the main thing that I'm rotating for.

[ronny mulkey]

Zebra, Mick, Chuck,

The question becomes - WHEN do you go "on ball" in your primary? When you stop rotating? Can you resist the urge, as Chuck does, and go on ball almost from the get go?
There are times when you are going out and the drive is coming in. Do you stop and referee that drive or do you continue to rotate and watch anything BUT the ball?

Because we have adopted the Women's mechanic on their expanded Lead coverage, it has become a big deal down here. We had 2 or 3 different camps yesterday. That is why I wanted to put it here and get y'all's input.

In my crew, I want the C to have clear expectations from me as I rotate into him/her.

Mulk

[zebraman]

Ronny,

We're getting into "3-person 303" instead of "3-person 101" here so typing answers in a discussion board might not do it justice. It's probably more suited for a long conversation like you had with your 12 fellow officials. But I'll wade in and try.

First of all, anticipating properly as lead and getting across early solves a lot of the problems. If you start across as the wing pass is being made, you'll be arriving on the strong side just as the "old C, new T" is starting to ref the onball matchup. That makes things much more defined as far as who the "old C, new T" and the lead have responsibility for.

However, assuming I was late........If I take one or two steps into the key and the drive starts out of the C's area, I am going to NOT cross and back out on the weak side and get to wide angle. A drive out of the C's area is his call all the way to the hoop. I back out to let him know that it's his call and to keep me from wanting to poach that call. I can still see the whack across the arm from there that the C cannot see and I can help if needed.

If I have just arrived on ball side and a drive starts from the "old C, new T", I will continue out to wide angle on the strong side (for the same reasons as above) and let the C take that drive to the hoop (and can help if necessary).

As lead, I am rotating across to help mainly with post play on the side of the "old C, new T" and not to pick up his perimeter matchups or a quick drive right at the hoop.

Z

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by ronny mulkey
Zebra, Mick, Chuck,

The question becomes - WHEN do you go "on ball" in your primary? When you stop rotating? Can you resist the urge, as Chuck does, and go on ball almost from the get go?
There are times when you are going out and the drive is coming in. Do you stop and referee that drive or do you continue to rotate and watch anything BUT the ball?

Because we have adopted the Women's mechanic on their expanded Lead coverage, it has become a big deal down here. We had 2 or 3 different camps yesterday. That is why I wanted to put it here and get y'all's input.

In my crew, I want the C to have clear expectations from me as I rotate into him/her.

Mulk

What I've been taught, in NCAA-W's mechanics, is to start the rotation as the ball comes over to C's side. As the L comes over, they have to stay focused on the matchups in the paint. As Chuck mentioned, it's hard not to start focusing on the reason for rotating, but I've found it becomes easier the more you do it. Also, the C stays with the ball-handler and defender until there is no immediate matchup, like say a 5-sec. count. So, as the L comes over, they might be looking back over their shoulder as they move across the paint, then set up with their body angled in towards the paint. Once the L knows the C no longer has an active, immediate matchup, the L turns their body and squares up with the new matchup, which then tells the old C/new T that they can now go off ball. It's all in the body language. The C can tell the L that they are actively watching the matchup (with, say, a 5-sec. count), so that tells the L to stay in the paint, even after the rotation. The L can also tell the C by turning towards the ball-handler that they now have on-ball coverage, which tells the new T they can look off-ball. It's the same type of mechanic as in HS and NCAA-M where a T might start a 5-sec. count, and follow the dribbler into the C's area. The C knows not to pick up the ball right away while the T is still counting, but can pick up the on-ball coverage once the T stops their count.

It's just a form of non-verbal communication between partners. The initial coverage stays with the official that had it first, until there's an opportunity to hand over coverage.

[mick]

Originally posted by ronny mulkey
Zebra, Mick, Chuck,

The question becomes - WHEN do you go "on ball" in your primary? When you stop rotating? Can you resist the urge, as Chuck does, and go on ball almost from the get go?
There are times when you are going out and the drive is coming in. Do you stop and referee that drive or do you continue to rotate and watch anything BUT the ball?

Because we have adopted the Women's mechanic on their expanded Lead coverage, it has become a big deal down here. We had 2 or 3 different camps yesterday. That is why I wanted to put it here and get y'all's input.

In my crew, I want the C to have clear expectations from me as I rotate into him/her.

Mulk

Mulk,
Like I intimated, the lead comes over to help until the play make its natural progression to *something else* [next play].

The timing of that change to *something else* can easily be shown, like zebraman said, with body angle [body language] and when the Center recognizes Lead's presence by backing out to Trail.
As the Trail backs out, he concedes the Leads area and then Lead will be *home* instead of just visiting.
[Of course, sometimes, with the ball going low and a crowd of players on Center's side, it is proper for the Lead to take the ball and may well *force* the Center to Trail.]

As for Chuck's cross-over and immediate attention to the ball, there's more good to that than bad, because then we know that the ball is being officiated, as opposed to the Center possibly giving it up, while Chuck is still in the quicksand on his cross-over.

Our protection for these cross-over plays is the long fist that tells us "I got it", "You got it", or "Let's talk."
mick

[ronny mulkey]

Originally posted by zebraman
Ronny,

We're getting into "3-person 303" instead of "3-person 101" here so typing answers in a discussion board might not do it justice. It's probably more suited for a long conversation like you had with your 12 fellow officials. But I'll wade in and try.

First of all, anticipating properly as lead and getting across early solves a lot of the problems. If you start across as the wing pass is being made, you'll be arriving on the strong side just as the "old C, new T" is starting to ref the onball matchup. That makes things much more defined as far as who the "old C, new T" and the lead have responsibility for.

However, assuming I was late........If I take one or two steps into the key and the drive starts out of the C's area, I am going to NOT cross and back out on the weak side and get to wide angle. A drive out of the C's area is his call all the way to the hoop. I back out to let him know that it's his call and to keep me from wanting to poach that call. I can still see the whack across the arm from there that the C cannot see and I can help if needed.

If I have just arrived on ball side and a drive starts from the "old C, new T", I will continue out to wide angle on the strong side (for the same reasons as above) and let the C take that drive to the hoop (and can help if necessary).

As lead, I am rotating across to help mainly with post play on the side of the "old C, new T" and not to pick up his perimeter matchups or a quick drive right at the hoop.

Z

Z,

Our State Director of Officials has mentioned "rotation on the fly" to us that we will be implementing next year. Some of the crews are using it this week but I don't know if anyone is doing it properly or not. The way that I understand it, it does work on the premise of getting the L over much earlier to accept a play before it gets started? Or, that is one of the advantages of it.

Your post states a lot more clearly the issues that we had yesterday during our pre-game than I ever could.

thanks

Mulk

[ronny mulkey]

Originally posted by mick

Mulk,
Like I intimated, the lead comes over to help until the play make its natural progression to *something else* [next play].

The timing of that change to *something else* can easily be shown, like zebraman said, with body angle [body language] and when the Center recognizes Lead's presence by backing out to Trail.
As the Trail backs out, he concedes the Leads area and then Lead will be *home* instead of just visiting.
[Of course, sometimes, with the ball going low and a crowd of players on Center's side, it is proper for the Lead to take the ball and may well *force* the Center to Trail.]

As for Chuck's cross-over and immediate attention to the ball, there's more good to that than bad, because then we know that the ball is being officiated, as opposed to the Center possibly giving it up, while Chuck is still in the quicksand on his cross-over.

Our protection for these cross-over plays is the long fist that tells us "I got it", "You got it", or "Let's talk."
mick

Mick,

Long fist?

mulk

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by ronny mulkey

Mick,

Long fist?

mulk

I believe he means the opposite of briefly and succinctly, right mick?

Iow, hold the fist and make eye contact with your partner to determine "I got it", "You got it", or "Let's talk."

[tomegun]

The correct way, or what I was told years ago, to rotate is to ref the area perpendicular to the paint as you cross. If something is going on in the paint it will be picked up and then the lead can officiate their new primary. Sounds good, but that isn't what happens; the lead officiates where they are going instead of where they are (as they move across). This is one benefit, IMO, of an accelerated rotation. If the L is going to look where he/she is going they might as well get there quicker so the new C can move to their new primary.

I'm assuming, and I may be wrong, that the discussion about not having two sets of eyes on the ball has to do with a rotation that occurs after the post player has caught the ball. Whatever the case may be, I don't think there is anything wrong with the lead looking at a matchup right in front of them. As the new lead, I will not abandon a matchup but will look away from the lead's primary at the first opportunity.

[mick]

Originally posted by M&M Guy

I believe he means the opposite of briefly and succinctly, right mick?

Iow, hold the fist and make eye contact with your partner to determine "I got it", "You got it", or "Let's talk."

Well, yeah ?!!
... Not a short fist !
mick

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by mick

Well, yeah ?!!
... Not a short fist !
mick

Thanks, mick - I thought we were on the same page.

I get uncomfortable talking about long and short body parts...