Time-out?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Case book play 9.1.7 says "After the ball has been placed at the disposal of the free thrower, he/she is not permitted to leave or enter the free-throw semi-circle without violating, until restrictions have ended." According to rule 9-10, free throw restrictions are in place until the ball touches the ring or backboard or until the free throw ends.

Thoughts?

Yes. You're mixing manure again.

Suppose A1 was in the circle, then A was granted a TO. Clearly A1 can leave teh circle for the TO, then return for the FT. The same applies to A1 not bing in the circle and A being granted a TO.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Interesting. Now, to bring in an NCAA case into this, let's say A1 has the ball for a FT, and B1 steps in the lane early. The official signals the delayed dead ball. Then, A's coach asks for, and is granted a TO. After the TO, we line up for the FT, and the delayed violation continues. Iow, if A1 misses, they are granted a replacement FT, because the TO does not wipe away the violation.

Again, this is an NCAA A.R., not a Fed. case play

The ruling is the same in both codes.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes. You're mixing manure again.

JR? Manure-mixer? Imagine that.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The ruling is the same in both codes.

I wasn't sure when I started typing, that's why I stated the NCAA ruling. Does it show as a case play somewhere?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

But ...suppose A1 wasn't in the semi-circle when you put the ball down at his disposal .......

Can A1 now come into the semicircle without violating?

That was my question.

Before the TO is granted, no.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MWI

If there is no team or player control during a throw- in and to call a time out there must be team control.. Why can the inbounding team call a time out?

I forgot to note here that team control is not an issue; player control is (or 'at the disposal of').

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Case book play 9.1.7 says "After the ball has been placed at the disposal of the free thrower, he/she is not permitted to leave or enter the free-throw semi-circle without violating, until restrictions have ended." According to rule 9-10, free throw restrictions are in place until the ball touches the ring or backboard or until the free throw ends.

Thoughts?

I like your thinking, but 4-20-3 comes into play and states that "The free throw ends when the try is successful, when it is certain the try will not become successful, when the try touches the floor or any player, or when the ball becomes dead." When the timeout is granted, the ball is dead, the free throw has ended and we can no longer have this specific violation on the shooter.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

I like your thinking, but 4-20-3 comes into play and states that "The free throw ends when the try is successful, when it is certain the try will not become successful, when the try touches the floor or any player, or when the ball becomes dead." When the timeout is granted, the ball is dead, the free throw has ended and we can no longer have this specific violation on the shooter.

Ok, then why can't we have this specific violation, but the TO doesn't wipe out the other violation I mentioned?

And, if you're saying the FT ended, how come the player gets to do it again when they come back out after the TO?

(Hey, this manure-stirring is kinda fun.)

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Ok, then why can't we have this specific violation, but the TO doesn't wipe out the other violation I mentioned?

And, if you're saying the FT ended, how come the player gets to do it again when they come back out after the TO?

(Hey, this manure-stirring is kinda fun.)

I think because 9-1-Penalties-2 essentially states that that particular try must occur and subsequently be unsuccessful for the violation to be penalized.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Ok, then why can't we have this specific violation, but the TO doesn't wipe out the other violation I mentioned?

And, if you're saying the FT ended, how come the player gets to do it again when they come back out after the TO?

(Hey, this manure-stirring is kinda fun.)

Good question. I figured this would come up. I'm having trouble finding the NFHS ruling which allows the delayed violation on B to be called after a timeout. Anyone care to point me in the right direction?

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

And, if you're saying the FT ended, how come the player gets to do it again when they come back out after the TO?

(Hey, this manure-stirring is kinda fun.)

Holy manure-stirring semantics, M&MMan!

From what I can find, I understand what you're saying here. The free throw definition rule states specifically that the free throw ends when the ball becomes dead (which is what happens when a time-out is granted), and the Rule 10 Summary never uses the word "attempt" - only the term "free throw."

So foul with two free throws awarded. Ball is at the shooter's disposal. Free throw begins here. Shooting team requests and is granted a time-out. Free throw ends here.

1st free throw over?

Better yet, what about the front end of a 1 and 1 - same scenario? After the time-out: ball to B on the baseline?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter
Good question. I figured this would come up. I'm having trouble finding the NFHS ruling which allows the delayed violation on B to be called after a timeout. Anyone care to point me in the right direction?

Originally Posted by M&M Guy
I wasn't sure when I started typing, that's why I stated the NCAA ruling. Does it show as a case play somewhere?

9.1.4 SITUATION C: A1 is preparing to attempt a free throw. Prior to A1's release of the ball, B1 fakes causing A2 to enter the lane prematurely. A1 then requests and is granted a time-out. RULING: Upon resuming play, A1 is entitled to a free throw and the official shall use the proper signal indicating a violation by B1 prior to the granting of the time-out. If the free throw is successful, the violation is ignored, if unsuccessful a substitute throw is awarded.

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP
Holy manure-stirring semantics, M&MMan!

From what I can find, I understand what you're saying here. The free throw definition rule states specifically that the free throw ends when the ball becomes dead (which is what happens when a time-out is granted), and the Rule 10 Summary never uses the word "attempt" - only the term "free throw."

So foul with two free throws awarded. Ball is at the shooter's disposal. Free throw begins here. Shooting team requests and is granted a time-out. Free throw ends here.

1st free throw over?

Better yet, what about the front end of a 1 and 1 - same scenario? After the time-out: ball to B on the baseline?

That FT is over, but the player is still entitled to a FT attempt which has yet to occur. Therefore, the game is resumed with a new FT for that player. That's what it says in 9.1.4 Sit C.