White undershirts

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I just posed the question to my assignor and he responded "If it is a different color and it shows, they have to remove it." So I guess here in Portland, if you can see it at all, it has to be removed. That's pretty much what I've been doing all along anyway, but I just wanted to be sure.

This is almost exactly what my assignor told me on Monday. I went on the assumption that sleeves had to match but if they were hemmed and capped above the shoulder they could stay on. I also never worried about necklines either. I will now, however.

[Mark Padgett]

It's the sleeves that matter. The entire point of the rule is to avoid confusion on such things as 3 second calls. If you are lead and there are players standing sideways in a crowd in the lane, sometimes all you can see is a sleeve. If it's the "wrong" color, you could make the "wrong" call.

I know it sounds petty, but I was told once that was one of the main reasons for that rule.

[Mwanr1]

what about Grey undershirt? or Tank-tops? Do you guys considered those "white?"


Another question - what about long socks? Is it legal to wear different color long socks?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

what about Grey undershirt? or Tank-tops? Do you guys considered those "white?"


Another question - what about long socks? Is it legal to wear different color long socks?

Personally I do not consider that grey is similar in color to white.

Socks have no restriction.

[Mwanr1]

Here's another thing. Inthe beginning of a JV game I asked a player to remove his undershirt as it does not match the uniform. The player quickly removed his jersey and shirt at the visual confines playing area (he did it right in front of me). By rules, should I enforced a "T" on that player for removing his jersey? Or does the "removing of the jersey in visual confines playing area" rule applies only during the game?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

Here's another thing. Inthe beginning of a JV game I asked a player to remove his undershirt as it does not match the uniform. The player quickly removed his jersey and shirt at the visual confines playing area (he did it right in front of me). By rules, should I enforced a "T" on that player for removing his jersey? Or does the "removing of the jersey in visual confines playing area" rule applies only during the game?

By rule that is a "T". Try this next time. Go up to the player and quietly ask him to step out of the gym and take off his undershirt. Make it clear he needs to leave the gym before he does it. That will save you a headache or two.

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by Smitty

By rule that is a "T". Try this next time. Go up to the player and quietly ask him to step out of the gym and take off his undershirt. Make it clear he needs to leave the gym before he does it. That will save you a headache or two.

Good idea!!! Situation like this applies mostly during a JV game. The varsity players know better.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

Here's another thing. Inthe beginning of a JV game I asked a player to remove his undershirt as it does not match the uniform. The player quickly removed his jersey and shirt at the visual confines playing area (he did it right in front of me). By rules, should I enforced a "T" on that player for removing his jersey? Or does the "removing of the jersey in visual confines playing area" rule applies only during the game?

How can you give a technical foul to a player who is following your instructions? That is not the intent of the rule, as you should know. The rule is intended to penalize showboating, unsportsmanlike acts, not for following the official's instructions. If it bothers you, be more careful in your instructions, like saying "Go back to your locker room and remove your undershirt", not just "Take your undershirt off".

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

How can you give a technical foul to a player who is following your instructions? That is not the intent of the rule, as you should know. The rule is intended to penalize showboating, unsportsmanlike acts, not for following the official's instructions. If it bothers you, be more careful in your instructions, like saying "Go back to your locker room and remove your undershirt", not just "Take your undershirt off".

You penalize this because it's against the rules. Are you saying that the players don't need to know the rules?

Still, your main point seems sound advice: proper instruction can avoid the appearance of setting up a player to violate a rule.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

How can you give a technical foul to a player who is following your instructions? That is not the intent of the rule, as you should know.

Unfortunately, Jim, the NFHS made it perfectly clear that it IS the intent of the rule. When the rule was introduced last year, we were told that if a player was sent out of the game for having blood on his shirt and he changed it at the bench, then it was a technical foul. No ifs, ands, or buts. There is to be no removal of shirts, period, in the visual confines of the gym.

be more careful in your instructions, like saying "Go back to your locker room and remove your undershirt", not just "Take your undershirt off".

I think this is good advice, regardless of the intent of the rule.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

How can you give a technical foul to a player who is following your instructions? That is not the intent of the rule, as you should know. The rule is intended to penalize showboating, unsportsmanlike acts, not for following the official's instructions. If it bothers you, be more careful in your instructions, like saying "Go back to your locker room and remove your undershirt", not just "Take your undershirt off".

Like Scrappy mentioned, this is the way the Fed. intended it to be called.

I might even suggest being a little more careful in the instructions. We don't really have the authority to tell them to remove anything. All we can tell them is they can't play with the offending undergarments. We might want to mention that they can't play with that shirt, but they also can't change it here. This way, the coach has the option of telling the player, "You idiot, I told you to take that off! Just for that, sit on the bench the rest of the game!". And you don't get in possible trouble for telling them to do something against the rules.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

Here's another thing. Inthe beginning of a JV game I asked a player to remove his undershirt as it does not match the uniform. The player quickly removed his jersey and shirt at the visual confines playing area (he did it right in front of me). By rules, should I enforced a "T" on that player for removing his jersey? Or does the "removing of the jersey in visual confines playing area" rule applies only during the game?

I had this sitch last week. I advised the coach to have the players get out of sight to change. They did. No T.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

It's the sleeves that matter. The entire point of the rule is to avoid confusion on such things as 3 second calls. If you are lead and there are players standing sideways in a crowd in the lane, sometimes all you can see is a sleeve. If it's the "wrong" color, you could make the "wrong" call.

I know it sounds petty, but I was told once that was one of the main reasons for that rule.

That is not the case anymore. During our rules clinic, the NFHS slides showing pictures for the undershirt rule specifically showed a player with a sleeveless undershirt and the only part of the undershirt you could see was the neckline. The fact that Howard says so is all I need to know.