Wrong Player Fouls Out??

[iref4him]

I am working a two-man game last night. I'm Lead. The ball gets stolen at halfcourt by the white team. SO I am now the new trail. My partner at the new Lead postion calls a foul Blue 11 on the layup. I'm coming up, the floor I just pass half court when he calls the foul. I observe the players. He reports the foul and walks away. The scorer says Blue 11 has committed has 5th personal foul. Due to earlier heated confrontation in the game with the Blue coach and my partner (as discussed in pregame), we decided to let me tell the Blue coach that BLue 11 has 5 fouls. Blue coach said Blue 11 was not in the play and that he was at half court and that Blue 00 is the one that fouled. Both announcers on the radio behind the scorer's bench signal that it was Blue 00. The visiting scorer said it was '00'. Blue 00 said it was him. The official scorer said that my partner said it was Blue 11. SO, I gave the Blue coach the benefit of the doubt. I asked my partner whom he called the foul on (or is it who?). He said Blue 11. I told the Blue coach and the Blue 11 and told the timer to start the 30. The Blue coach was adamant that it was not Blue 11. I told him that Blue 11 has 5 fouls and he needs to get a replacement. Blue 11 was replaced. I am thinking that maybe I should have observed the players and who was who after the foul. Otherwise, I had no choice to do what I did. ANy thoughts

[Junker]

Sounds like you did all you could. Did you discuss the play with your partner afterwards? You didn't have enough information to change anything. In 2 man it's tough to help out on these plays. When I call a foul I try to communicate to my partners who I have and if we have a shooter. This helps me remember it and my partners in case there is a problem.

[deecee]

if blue 11 was by half court and so were you and you notice this -- you can mention to your partner. other than that i would ask my partner "How much do you love your call on Blue 11" If he says something to the fact of "Oh not so much" that you can work with -- if he says "yup it was blue 11" any you cannot add "well blue 11 was right next to me at half court" this is your parnters to live and die with.

[BktBallRef]

Not sure what you're looking for. If your partner says it was Blue 11 and you don't know any different, what choice is there?

[iref4him]

We did talk about the situation afterwards and my partner said he believes he got the right player - Blue 11.

What I am looking for?? --> Just to see if anyone had an better way to handle the situation or to mitigate this happening again.

[Adam]

The only impartial people besides you were maybe the radio announcers. Your partners is right there on the floor. Not really much you can do on this but deal with it as it happens.

[Camron Rust]

This play sounds like it was on a fast break...not a congested lane. When everyone at the table...from both teams...agrees you got the wrong number, I'd be inclined to listen to them. If the coaches from both teams then also say the same thing, that is icing on the cake, you can bet I'm going to listen. I'd rather admit a simple mistake than look like I'm too proud to admit it and charge the wrong player becasue I looked at the number too quickly.

[Nevadaref]

Even the NCAA does not currently allow the use of the monitor to ensure that the foul is charged to the proper player.

In NFHS, you offer your partner help, if he doesn't want the help and sticks with his original call, then there is nothing that you can do.

You can do what you did and take the heat from the coach for him and get the replacement or you could let your partner come over to the table and explain himself why he is sure that he got the right player. Then you can resume the game with 2 shots and the ball at the division line.

Edited due to my error which Dan pointed out below.

[johnnyrao]

I learned from something similar a few weeks ago. Actually, it's not very similar but this situation made me think of it. I was T and my partner was L (three person mechanics). It was on transition and there was a close block / charge type call. Based on our pre-game it should have been my call since it came from my primary coverage. However, my partner was right in front of it since we were transitioning so I deferred to him. If I took the call I was ready to call a block. He came up with a PC. No problem since neither signaled until we made eye contact. He makes his call and heads to the table to report. As he goes by me he says, "I forgot who fouled. Can you help me?" Since I was prepared to call a block I had no idea who the offensive player was. He looked around and remembered, reported it, and we played on. Hopefully if I get into this situation again I will remember all the players involved. Just a little game management and situational awareness thing for me.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

This play sounds like it was on a fast break...not a congested lane. When everyone at the table...from both teams...agrees you got the wrong number, I'd be inclined to listen to them. If the coaches from both teams then also say the same thing, that is icing on the cake, you can bet I'm going to listen. I'd rather admit a simple mistake than look like I'm too proud to admit it and charge the wrong player becasue I looked at the number too quickly.

What he said.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The only impartial people besides you were maybe the radio announcers.

LOL! You're kidding, right?

Every radio announcer I've ever heard was the biggest homer to ever watch a game.

Iref4him, like I said, if your partner's adamant and you don't know any differently, then there is nothing else to do. We can tell you, "pay attention to what players are around the ball," or whatever. But that's a no-brainer to say. Unfortunately, the one time you don't do it is when you get burned.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The NCAA would allow the use of the monitor to ensure that the foul is charged to the proper player.

2-5-3. The officials shall not use a courtside monitor or courtside videotape for judgment calls such as:
a. Who committed a foul or whether a foul occurred;

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

2-5-3. The officials shall not use a courtside monitor or courtside videotape for judgment calls such as:
a. Who committed a foul or whether a foul occurred;

Dang it, Dan is right again. I'll go edit my post. I am either going to have to really study the NCAA rules or just stop answering NCAA questions.

For the record, I got confused by this NCAA rule:

2-5-1b. A determination as to who shall attempt a free throw(s) when there is uncertainty;

Also, I will add that I find it surprising that the NCAA considers which player committed a foul to be a "judgment call", not a point of fact, and does not allow the monitor to be used in this case, but does permit it for determining whether a try was a 2 or 3, who shall attempt a free throw(s) when there is uncertainty, and if a fight occurred and the individuals who participated or left the bench area. Any of those could just as easily be classified as judgment calls. It doesn't make sense to me that who committed a foul isn't included with these others.

I find it utterly ridiculous that the monitor can be used to determine which player was fouled, but not which player committed that foul.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Dang it, Dan is right again. I'll go edit my post. I am either going to have to really study the NCAA rules or just stop answering NCAA questions.

Yeah, I'm right every now & then.

When a coach claps and tells me "Good call!!" I usually tell him I like to get 1 good one per side every game, and that was his.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by iref4him

I asked my partner whom he called the foul on (or is it who?)... ANy thoughts

I asked my partner on whom he called the foul.

That's my only thought.