Denied Entry

[ranjo]

Lets see if you think I got this right.

Following a time out and after the first warning horn I am counting the players on the court and can see 5 white team members and 4 red team members. Looking toward the red bench, I see a player standing on the court and the coach is looking at his elbow. Coach then says he has blood on him and I ask for a sub. At this point the white team coach sends a sub to the table. I allow the sub for the red team bleeder into the game, but deny entry to the white team sub because he presented himself after the warning horn.

I know there is a rule that says if a player is required by rule to be replaced, then any other entry into the game may enter also, but I believe this applies only to free throws. Also I felt that the bleeding red player had never actually entered the game at this point, and his sub should be classified as the 5th red team member and not as a sub.

Did I do it right by rule or not?

[Adam]

You did what I would have done. If the sub doesn’t report to the table prior to the first horn, no entry until after the ball has become live (or does the clock need to start?). The exception is for forced replacements (blood being one key example.)

[mick]

Originally Posted by ranjo

Lets see if you think I got this right.

Following a time out and after the first warning horn I am counting the players on the court and can see 5 white team members and 4 red team members. Looking toward the red bench, I see a player standing on the court and the coach is looking at his elbow. Coach then says he has blood on him and I ask for a sub. At this point the white team coach sends a sub to the table. I allow the sub for the red team bleeder into the game, but deny entry to the white team sub because he presented himself after the warning horn.

I know there is a rule that says if a player is required by rule to be replaced, then any other entry into the game may enter also, but I believe this applies only to free throws. Also I felt that the bleeding red player had never actually entered the game at this point, and his sub should be classified as the 5th red team member and not as a sub.

Did I do it right by rule or not?

I am allowing the new white player into the game.
It is my reasoning that one of the purposes of having a game is to have the kids on the floor.
Allowing White to substitute during this stoppage, or delay, has little difference to allowing a substitute in before the first of multiple free throws during an interim delay.

[cmathews]

I agree with Mick, and allow the sub. Another reason I can see is that white had a team on the floor based on what red had or didn't have on the floor. When red changes their team, it is only fair to allow white to "match up" by substituting. If the new red team player happens to be their offensive star, who was going to take a breather, then the white team should be allowed to sub in their defensive stopper who was on the bench for the same reason. IMHO

[deecee]

After reading the topic I thought this was going to be a meet and greet at a bar gone wrong. But alas no fun story of romping with the fairer of the sexes.

My 2cents -- let the sub in.

[BktBallRef]

If I allow a player in for one team, then I allow players from both.

EDIT: Case play

3.3.1 SITUATION B: A time-out is granted to Team A with play to resume by administration of a free throw. A6 reports to enter after the timer's warning signal has sounded. Since A6 has reported too late to enter, could he/she enter if: (a) either team is granted a time-out; (b) the resumption of play is delayed because a player is injured getting into position for the free throw; or (c) Team A is willing to “buy” A6's way into the game with a technical foul?

RULING: Permissible in (a) and (b), but not in (c).

[M&M Guy]

It looks like 3.3.1 SitB.(b) covers this.

Allow the white sub.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

It looks like 3.3.1 SitB.(b) covers this.

Allow the white sub.

Yes sir. Unfortunately, the OP didn't get it right. Oh well, learn from it and nail it from now on.

3.3.1 SITUATION B: A time-out is granted to Team A with play to resume by administration of a free throw. A6 reports to enter after the timer's warning signal has sounded. Since A6 has reported too late to enter, could he/she enter if: (a) either team is granted a time-out; (b) the resumption of play is delayed because a player is injured getting into position for the free throw; or (c) Team A is willing to “buy” A6's way into the game with a technical foul? RULING: Permissible in (a) and (b), but not in (c).

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

EDIT: Case play

Last edited by BktBallRef : Today at 07:19pm.

Now why would you do that when I posted the text of the case play at 07:14pm?

[Scrapper1]

Ok, here's a comment just to be nit-picky. Not saying I think we ought to make this distinction in real life, just throwin' it out there. . .

3-3-1c EXCEPTION: When a player is required by rule to be replaced prior to administering the free throw(s), then all other substitutes who have legally reported may also enter the game.

3.3.1 SITUATION B: A time-out is granted to Team A with play to resume by administration of a free throw. . .

Since we don't know how the game was to be resumed in the original situation, can we say for sure that the sub should've been allowed in?

[ranjo]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Ok, here's a comment just to be nit-picky. Not saying I think we ought to make this distinction in real life, just throwin' it out there. . .


Since we don't know how the game was to be resumed in the original situation, can we say for sure that the sub should've been allowed in?

As stated in my orginal posting, this occured following a time-out and not during a free throw. Thats why I denied entry.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by ranjo

As stated in my orginal posting, this occured following a time-out and not during a free throw.

It's not possible to have a time-out between free throws?

[deecee]

really not possible to have a TO between free throws?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

It's not possible to have a time-out between free throws?

Ranjo's point is that he gave you all the pertinent information in msg #1. As my JuCo supervisor likes to say "don't read into the question, just stick with the facts stated".

[Ignats75]

When I went to Officiating School one of the lessons we were taught was -when beibg asked to rule on something not specifically in the rules, ask yourself Why Not? IF you can't answer that question with a rule, allow it.

A long way of saying...use common sense.

If I'm allowing a sub for one team, I'll allow it for another.