a rough night

[refnjoe]

Had a rough game last night. Been fighting bad cold last few days, knew it would be tough personally. This is my first year, but was glad to know that my partner was a four year veteran.

I became concerned that experience may not be all that great when he started complaining before the game that he isn't working any varsity games yet.

During the game, there were several sloppy incidents, but I will name two:

1) holding on B2, away from the ball, my call. I report to the table, table advises A is in bonus. Partner has A lined up for throw in. I communicate we're in the bonus, shooting 1-and-1. He runs up to me, says this is team control foul, no shots. I say its not team control on a defensive foul, he persists, so I tell him to report that to the table. He is veteran, and the R, so what else can I do?

2) had trouble with 2 players going at it all night, pushing back and forth. called a push on B1, a ball on throw in. away from ball, these 2 guys pushing again. DOUBLE FOUL. I report, partner is signaling for alternate possession. I didn't realize mistake (should have been point of interruption) until it was too late.

The main reason I am posting, other than double checking my understanding of above, is what are thoughts/comments about the wisdom of discussing this with assigning secretary? I certainly don't want to sound like a complainer or a know-it-all, but I do want to work with guys that they have confidence in, and know that I can learn from.

Partner is a good guy, and I have no problems getting along with him or anyone else. But, based on how things went in this game, I don't feel like I can take any of the insight that was offered me.

Is that something I should say or should I keep my mouth shut?

Thanks!

[truerookie]

[QUOTE=refnjoe]Had a rough game last night. Been fighting bad cold last few days, knew it would be tough personally. This is my first year, but was glad to know that my partner was a four year veteran.

I became concerned that experience may not be all that great when he started complaining before the game that he isn't working any varsity games yet.

Now we know why

During the game, there were several sloppy incidents, but I will name two:

1) holding on B2, away from the ball, my call. I report to the table, table advises A is in bonus. Partner has A lined up for throw in. I communicate we're in the bonus, shooting 1-and-1. He runs up to me, says this is team control foul, no shots. I say its not team control on a defensive foul, he persists, so I tell him to report that to the table. He is veteran, and the R, so what else can I do?

Line A up to shot their shots.

2) had trouble with 2 players going at it all night, pushing back and forth. called a push on B1, a ball on throw in. away from ball, these 2 guys pushing again. DOUBLE FOUL. I report, partner is signaling for alternate possession. I didn't realize mistake (should have been point of interruption) until it was too late.

IMO, this was allowed to go on too long. Double should have been called sooner.
The main reason I am posting, other than double checking my understanding of above, is what are thoughts/comments about the wisdom of discussing this with assigning secretary? I certainly don't want to sound like a complainer or a know-it-all, but I do want to work with guys that they have confidence in, and know that I can learn from.

Did you all do a pre-game conference before taking the floor. IMO, this could have eliminated some of the issues about rules?

[refnjoe]

truerookie- you are probably right, a double may have served its purpose sooner. it did get the message across, however. And, kudos to the advice I had read on here before about that very issue. If it hadn't been for suggestions on here, I doubt I would have called it.

We did pregame, and not sure what else we could have done to prevent these issues. It may be that I said too much as it was- I let my partner know that I was having a rough night and let me know if he sees anything. Maybe that was suggesting to him that I wasn't going to be on top of things and he didn't need to listen to me... ?

[Jurassic Referee]

[QUOTE=truerookie]

Originally Posted by refnjoe

Did you all do a pre-game conference before taking the floor. IMO, this could have eliminated some of the issues about rules?

A pre-game conference isn't going to eliminate the problem of an official not knowing the rules in the first place.

[truerookie]

[QUOTE=Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by truerookie

A pre-game conference isn't going to eliminate the problem of an official not knowing the rules in the first place.

JR, I look up to you. You are my unofficial MENTOR! I thought about that approach. I chose to take the pre-game approach to be safe. I did not want to be that blunt although I can be.

[Dan_ref]

[QUOTE=Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by truerookie

A pre-game conference isn't going to eliminate the problem of an official not knowing the rules in the first place.

Hold on a second here. I understand there are some really big dawgs out there who take the minimun number of HS games to qualify for playoff games.

It's OK if they don't know the rules, aint it??

My buddy Scrapie sez it's OK.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

My buddy Scrapie sez it's OK.

Don't put words in my mouth. I'll just barf them back out at you. I haven't felt good since noon yesterday. Mostly better now, but I was miserable. Plus I have a 1.25 hr drive ahead of me for a game tonight.

[jeffpea]

refnjoe - I think you should contact your assignor and explain to him what happened. Be general in your comments and be ready to provide a specific example (like the foul on B2 away from the ball where your partner denied Team A FT's claiming it was a "team control foul"), if needed. You could close the phone call with something like: "since this is my first season working for you, how would you like for me to handle this situation if it occurs again?"

You certainly want to develop a realtionship with your assignor that communicates your competency, your responsibility, and your desire to improve/learn from experiences.

Don't think of this conversation as you being a "tattle tale", think of it as getting the advice of the assignor as to how to handle this in the future.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Don't put words in my mouth. I'll just barf them back out at you.

Sorry you're not feeling good, Scrapp-o. But save that barf for your game, you might need to puke on a coach's shoes. Flinging it at Dan seems like such a waste!

[MadCityRef]

Now you have learned the supreme lesson of officiating: Experience does not equal talent. Wait 'til you work with the 30-year veteran who can't ref his way out of a wet paper bag. -And makes all of your calls for you.- That will be a fun night.
In talking with your assignor, phrase the experience using yourself as the example. "I wonder if I handled this right." I, I, I.
Don't offer specifics until asked for them. Then get out of the way.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

Now you have learned the supreme lesson of officiating: Experience does not equal talent.

In all instances?

Lah me.....