One team "too rough"

Mark Padgett · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 07, 2005, 12:58pm

Last night, the score after the first quarter was 20-5. The coach of the trailing team comes up to me and my partner and says that although it's obvious that his team is nowhere as good as the other, it's because the other team is much bigger and stronger. At that point it was all I could do to keep from saying "Ya' think???".

He then says that the other team is using it's size and strength to play too rough and his boys are getting hurt. Ya, right. So I say to him, "OK. How about if I tell the other coach to have his team play like wussies the rest of the night? Would that be OK?" He stares for a moment, then sits down and doesn't say another word the rest of the night.

At halftime, I told the other coach what transpired. He cracked up. After the game, he came up to me and said he thinks his point guard actually played like a wussie since this was the first game all season he didn't get at least four fouls.

rainmaker · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 07, 2005, 01:01pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
At halftime, I told the other coach what transpired. He cracked up.

This is the point where I get off the bus. I thought the first exchange with the losing coach acceptable, but I don't see that any good can come of talking to the other coach about it.

Robmoz · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 07, 2005, 01:09pm

Mark, do you really engage a coach with such sarcastic comments during a game? No wonder he said nothing more to you the rest of the game; you would probably come back with some other unprofessional comment. Many times coaches will say the silliest things (at least from our perspective) and seriously beleive in what they are spewing, right or wrong.

There is never a need to be flip with a coach, what point does it serve?

And then to add insult to injury you offer this nugget to the other coach in some attempt to be funny? Shame on you.

TimTaylor · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 07, 2005, 01:14pm

Girls JV game last week - at the end of the 3rd, coach of team that is down by 12 comes up to us and says "You're letting the other team control the tempo of the game and we can't run our plays." Sometimes you just gotta wonder......

rainmaker · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 07, 2005, 01:19pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Robmoz
Mark, do you really engage a coach with such sarcastic comments during a game? No wonder he said nothing more to you the rest of the game; you would probably come back with some other unprofessional comment. Many times coaches will say the silliest things (at least from our perspective) and seriously beleive in what they are spewing, right or wrong.

There is never a need to be flip with a coach, what point does it serve?

And then to add insult to injury you offer this nugget to the other coach in some attempt to be funny? Shame on you.

Rob -- the sitch isn't quite as dire as you think. This league is a rec league with the same coaches and same refs year after year. Many adults are involved with the league at various levels for long periods of time. They get to know each other pretty well. Most of these folks know Mark well enough that he can pull off these kinds of remarks. Many of the parents like the way he is concerned for the attitudes and safety of their children. This is one of the best rec leagues in the country with lots and lots of emphasis on keeping things positive and upbuilding rather than unhealthily competitive. But I still think that he shouldn't have told the other caoch.

Robmoz · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 07, 2005, 01:37pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by Robmoz
Mark, do you really engage a coach with such sarcastic comments during a game? No wonder he said nothing more to you the rest of the game; you would probably come back with some other unprofessional comment. Many times coaches will say the silliest things (at least from our perspective) and seriously beleive in what they are spewing, right or wrong.

There is never a need to be flip with a coach, what point does it serve?

And then to add insult to injury you offer this nugget to the other coach in some attempt to be funny? Shame on you.

Rob -- the sitch isn't quite as dire as you think. This league is a rec league with the same coaches and same refs year after year. Many adults are involved with the league at various levels for long periods of time. They get to know each other pretty well. Most of these folks know Mark well enough that he can pull off these kinds of remarks.

At whose expense, the coach's, or the other refs who may not have such latitude afforded them? So, was the coaches silence a reflection of respect, humiliation, or disdain?

Quote:

Many of the parents like the way he is concerned for the attitudes and safety of their children.

So, is this type of commentary leading by example?

Quote:

This is one of the best rec leagues in the country with lots and lots of emphasis on keeping things positive and upbuilding rather than unhealthily competitive.

Arguably, as this action clearly goes against the values you described.

Quote:

But I still think that he shouldn't have told the other caoch.

See, we do agree.

rainmaker · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 07, 2005, 01:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Robmoz

Quote:

But I still think that he shouldn't have told the other caoch.

See, we do agree.

(A)Yea, about this one thing.

(B) I'm just saying that the comments to the complaining coach should be taken in the context of the long standing relationship between Mark and several other refs and this coach and several others. There are certain times when a comment like this is acceptable, even though it's NOT recommended most of the time.

But, see back to point A.

Dan_ref · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 07, 2005, 01:51pm

C'mon. This coach was getting his butt kicked, he felt it was Mark's fault and he wanted Mark to do something about it.

There are times when a coach says something that is so unbearably...errr...well, uhmmm....stupid...that nothing short of a quick and hopefully painless but brutal response is deserved.

There's just no other good way to respond to the coach after that discussion. What was Mark gonna say, "I'll watch for it coach"? If that was me I would have been tempted to tell him to keep his darlings off the floor if he feared for their safety. Or at least roll my eyes & walked away.

Although I'm pretty sure I would not have shared this with the other coach.

Robmoz · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 07, 2005, 01:59pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

C'mon. This coach was getting his butt kicked, he felt it was Mark's fault and he wanted Mark to do something about it.

There are times when a coach says something that is so unbearably...errr...well, uhmmm....stupid...that nothing short of a quick and hopefully painless but brutal response is deserved.

There's just no other good way to respond to the coach after that discussion. What was Mark gonna say, "I'll watch for it coach"? If that was me I would have been tempted to tell him to keep his darlings off the floor if he feared for their safety. Or at least roll my eyes & walked away.

Although I'm pretty sure I would not have shared this with the other coach.

I guess that is my whole point, a professional response or no response at best but no need to be smug about it.

Dan_ref · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 07, 2005, 02:39pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Robmoz

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

C'mon. This coach was getting his butt kicked, he felt it was Mark's fault and he wanted Mark to do something about it.

There are times when a coach says something that is so unbearably...errr...well, uhmmm....stupid...that nothing short of a quick and hopefully painless but brutal response is deserved.

There's just no other good way to respond to the coach after that discussion. What was Mark gonna say, "I'll watch for it coach"? If that was me I would have been tempted to tell him to keep his darlings off the floor if he feared for their safety. Or at least roll my eyes & walked away.

Although I'm pretty sure I would not have shared this with the other coach.

I guess that is my whole point, a professional response or no response at best but no need to be smug about it.

I guess I don't see where he's being "smug".

BTW, there are ways for a coach to handle this without blaming the officials for general incompetence (not that I'm saying Mark's not generally incompetent, mind you). For instance, he *could have* asked Mark to watch for:

"My point guard's having trouble gettig around the hand checks"

"My big guy's taking some elbows on rebounds"

"My man-to-man's breaking down because of illegal screens"

You know, specific items rather than whining "Help me! They play too haaaaard!"

ChrisSportsFan · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 07, 2005, 03:01pm

Probably he learned this from Dave's book of ref'n comments, page #43.

I suppose this could have backfired because coach could have taken this 1 of 2 ways, fortunately for Mark, coach resorted to his handy travel pack of tissues.

thumpferee · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 07, 2005, 03:29pm

I agree that instead of saying "OK. How about if I tell the other coach to have his team play like wussies the rest of the night?", replacing "like wussies" with "to your team's abilities" would be better.

But that's Mark.

Gotta love it!

Mark Padgett · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 07, 2005, 03:40pm

OK - here's why I mentioned it to the other coach:

a) he's a Board member
b) he's also a referee
c) he saw me speaking with the first coach and I could tell he was curious

rainmaker · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 07, 2005, 06:06pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
OK - here's why I mentioned it to the other coach:

a) he's a Board member
b) he's also a referee

Okay, I see. But I think if I was going to tell him, I'd have done it later when the complaining coach wouldn't know.

ChuckElias · #15 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 08, 2005, 08:59am

Quote:

Originally posted by Robmoz
what point does it serve?

In this case, it served to shut the coach up for the rest of the night. Who cares why he shut up. A non-complaining coach almost always makes the game better for everybody involved.

I'm not condoning/condeming Mark's comments; just answering one particular question in your post.