Rough Day on the Bases

[Stat-Man]

At our game today, had a couple of rough moments from the BU that made me wonder.

Situation 1:

R2 & R3, 1 out. Batter hits a ball to F6. R2 runs in front of F6 but jumps over the ball. R3 scores and BR reaches first safely. After play completes, he confurs with PU and rules R2 out for interference (good call IMO) and runner on 3rd scores. After the half inning ends some spectator gets on him that the runner form 3rd should not have scored. He confers with BU again and tellsus that since he said R3 scored, he couldn't undo it. Just thought it was odd, he'd engage with a fan in a rule discussion

And for whatever it's worth, I think INT should have been called immediately with R2 out and R3 staying on 3rd.

Situation 2:

While on defense, a batter hit a popup down the first base line. It drops in the infield fair and then goes into foul territory. BU calls "Foul!" and everyone stops. PU ends up giving BR first base. Can the PU do this in this situation? I've seen umpires here say once you call a ball foul, you can't undo it and similary "you can't unring a rung bell".

[U_of_I_Blue]

1) Just hurdling the ball does not necessarily mean interferenece. If the runner does not break stride, throw an arm out, yell or something else to distract the fielder, I won't penalize her for simply avoiding the ball by jumping. If, however, interference is called, runner is out, BR gets first base (unless a probable double play is prevented), and R3 stays put at third. Agreed as well when you say a blue should never discuss calls with fans. I saw this at the NCAA D1 level down here at Univ. of Illinois this past weekend. Fans are riding an ump about his call of foul on a ball they though was fair. One fan says "Blue look, there's chalk dust kickd out into fair territory". Granted, that shouldn't even figure into the decision, it could have gotten there some other way, but blue turns to accuser and says "My foot was there and kicked the line". Completely unprofessional in my opinion.

2)This was emphasized in the rule meeting I attended this spring. It used to be that an umpire could rectify the situation by placing runners. However, now, when a foul ball is called, the ball is foul, period - no ifs ands or buts. If the ball falls in front of the center fielder and the blue calls foul and the players stop, the ball is foul. Only time a foul can be changed is if the ball is dead, such as after a homerun, where there is no chance for the defense to have made a play on the runner.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

I worked a little four team High School tournament this last weekend (NFHS). I probably called 8 obstruction calls during pick-off attempts in one game.

The catchers were both very capable of throwing down to 1st and 3rd. Even a couple of throws to 2nd. Also back to the pitcher and then to 2nd for a pick-off.

The basemen were not so adept a placing tags. The basemen would continually block the base - legs, feet, occasionally sitting with a leg underneath them, in front of the base.

The runners were also not so good at sliding back into the base - they wanted to walk or tip-toe back into the base, stepping around and over legs. Combine that with the poor defensive techniques and you get tags placed at the waistline or higher and little discernable movement from the returning base-runner.

The fans were going nuts as I called "That's obstruction. The runner is safe." The players just didn't get it. I would even explain it to them. That they must have the ball before they could block the basepath. It felt like repeat ad infinitum.

Some old geezer came up to me after the game and felt obligated to tell me I had missed about 12 calls that last game. Yeah, Buddy I don't recall seeing you at the last rules clinic. Maybe I'll see you at the next one. Probably not.

He seemed a little more understanding when I explained the rule change but not completely satisfied. It was just too different from what they had seen for the last 20 years. I was obviously a rookie and wrong.

Partner did a great job of defending my calls. Next two games he was in the field with me behind the dish. He made the exact same calls ... I seemed to catch all the flack.

Oh well, a couple more weeks and maybe everyone will figure it out.

[Steve M]

"Oh well, a couple more weeks and maybe everyone will figure it out"

Tony, I want some of that brew you drink..............

Worked a couple of NAIA games yesterday. I had much of the same and more - 2 interference calls, catcher obstruction, obstruction by the catcher on a tag play at home, ... These games was UGLY.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Stat-Man
At our game today, had a couple of rough moments from the BU that made me wonder.

Situation 1:

R2 & R3, 1 out. Batter hits a ball to F6. R2 runs in front of F6 but jumps over the ball. R3 scores and BR reaches first safely. After play completes, he confurs with PU and rules R2 out for interference (good call IMO) and runner on 3rd scores. After the half inning ends some spectator gets on him that the runner form 3rd should not have scored. He confers with BU again and tellsus that since he said R3 scored, he couldn't undo it. Just thought it was odd, he'd engage with a fan in a rule discussion

And for whatever it's worth, I think INT should have been called immediately with R2 out and R3 staying on 3rd.

There seem to be a rash of these "interference by running in front and distracting poor Sally" calls discussed on the boards lately. I guess you can figure out my view from the description.

But, on a more objective point, if the umpire is rectifying a late call (or changing the call late to interference) he certainly CAN undo runs scored. Lame excuse for an oversight. And you're right - he had no business giving the explanation to the fans.

Originally posted by Stat-Man
Situation 2:

While on defense, a batter hit a popup down the first base line. It drops in the infield fair and then goes into foul territory. BU calls "Foul!" and everyone stops. PU ends up giving BR first base. Can the PU do this in this situation? I've seen umpires here say once you call a ball foul, you can't undo it and similary "you can't unring a rung bell".

Either I'm missing something or that IS a foul ball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Dakota
There seem to be a rash of these "interference by running in front and distracting poor Sally" calls discussed on the boards lately. I guess you can figure out my view from the description.

Tom,

Couldn't agree with you more. Too many umpires suffering from a God complex, looking for ways to keep the game, in their eyes, "fair".

You want a fair, go to the church social on Independence Day. An umpire's job is to apply the rules which are meant to keep the game as fair as the representatives of the game want it to be. Being over officious more often alters the game to the point it moves away from the rules which means someone is getting an edge that is not supposed to be there.

BTW, over-officious umpires at the higher levels are usually only visitors.

[mcrowder]

"It drops in the infield fair and then goes into foul territory. BU calls "Foul!" and everyone stops."

Sounds like the right call to me. Foul Ball. Why'd he put the runner back on base?

[Stat-Man]

Originally posted by Dakota
Either I'm missing something or that IS a foul ball.

Just to clarify, it dropped fair behind first base and then rolled into foul territory behind first base.

Originally posted by mcrowder
Sounds like the right call to me. Foul Ball. Why'd he put the runner back on base?

His partner, the PU, awarded the BR first base.

[Edited by Stat-Man on Apr 19th, 2005 at 04:56 PM]

[Dukat]

I see said the blind man. On the original thread it said

Originally posted by Stat-Man
"It drops in the infield fair and then goes into foul territory."

That is what had everyone confused