team control during freethrow?

[ctpfive]

So, referee is wrong and there is in fact team control during a FT while the shooter is holding the ball. Thank you. I just expected a little more than that from a magazine like referee.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by ctpfive

I just expected a little more than that from a magazine like referee.

Why did you?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

4-12-1
A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. There is no player control when, during a jump ball, a jumper catches the ball prior to the ball touching the floor or a non-jumper, or during an interrupted dribble.


During a FT, is a player holding a live ball inbounds? You tell me, ctp5.

Yabut, if the free thrower isn't holding a live ball, has never held a live ball, his teammates haven't held a live ball, but that live ball is at his disposal ,is theer or is there not team control?

You tell me, anybody.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yabut, if the free thrower isn't holding a live ball, has never held a live ball, his teammates haven't held a live ball, but that live ball is at his disposal ,is theer or is there not team control?

You tell me, anybody.

Does the word disposal appear in the rule?

4-12-1
A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. There is no player control when, during a jump ball, a jumper catches the ball prior to the ball touching the floor or a non-jumper, or during an interrupted dribble.

A player is in control when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds.

A team is in control when a player of the team is in control.

Therefore, if the ball is merely ay the disposal of the freethrower and not held or dribbled by him/her.........no team control.

You beat me to it BBR

[All_Heart]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Soooooooo....is there team control if you put the ball at the disposal of the free-throw shooter but he hasn't picked it up yet?

If a teammate of the FT shooter commits a foul before the FT shooter picks up the ball that is at his disposal, is it a team control foul and the FT is cancelled?

If a teammate of the the FT shooter commits a foul after the FT shooter picks up the ball, is it a team control foul and the FT is cancelled?

Inquiring minds need to know!

1) No

2) Common foul because the ball is live. Blow whistle, report foul, shoot free throws with no one in the spaces, give ball to other team for throw-in at closest spot to the foul. (If last free throw is made then they can move along the end line). (If the other team is in the bonus then shoot those free throws with players on the line)

3)Team Control Foul, FT is cancelled. If ball is in the air when foul is committed then it counts if it is made.

Am I right? Am I, Am I

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by PYRef

A team is in control when a player of the team is in control.

Except a team is still in control, even though a player isn't, during passing activity, an interrupted dribble, or a loose ball.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Except a team is still in control, even though a player isn't, during passing activity, an interrupted dribble, or a loose ball.

You can't establish team control until you establish player control though, can you?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You can't establish team control until you establish player control though, can you?

Not as far as I know. I was simply pointing out that you don't have to have player control to have team control. My post was really not germane to this thread at all.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by All_Heart

1) No

2) Common foul because the ball is live. Blow whistle, report foul, shoot free throws with no one in the spaces, give ball to other team for throw-in at closest spot to the foul. (If last free throw is made then they can move along the end line). (If the other team is in the bonus then shoot those free throws with players on the line)

3)Team Control Foul, FT is cancelled. If ball is in the air when foul is committed then it counts if it is made.

Am I right? Am I, Am I

Well, #3 isn't.

I ain't saying on the others.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Not as far as I know. I was simply pointing out that you don't have to have player control to have team control. My post was really not germane to this thread at all.

Thanks for the help.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You can't establish team control until you establish player control though, can you?

This question was left open in the thread about rolling the ball. Is it stated anywhere that team control starts only with player control? Team A inbounds the ball, and immediately, without any player catching the ball, advances up the court with a series of touch passes. By definition passing includes players batting or rolling the ball to each other. Also by definition, as stated here earlier, team control includes passing activity. So why would a foul in this situation not be a team control foul?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Is it stated anywhere that team control starts only with player control? Team A inbounds the ball, and immediately, without any player catching the ball, advances up the court with a series of touch passes. By definition passing includes players batting or rolling the ball to each other. Also by definition, as stated here earlier, team control includes passing activity. So why would a foul in this situation not be a team control foul?

case book play 4-12-6 referencing throw-ins says "The throw-in ends when A2 touches the ball, but the backcourt count does not start until A3 gains control. That means that neither player or team control has been established because either is needed to have a backcourt violation as per 9-8.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

case book play 4-12-6 referencing throw-ins says "The throw-in ends when A2 touches the ball, but the backcourt count does not start until A3 gains control. That means that neither player or team control has been established because either is needed to have a backcourt violation as per 9-8.

But this doesn't answer the original question. In this particular situation, the point is that the count doesn't start until team control is gained. The point is not how team control is gained. This is a situation that one might never see, but the series of batted passes would seem to constitute team control, whether an individual player ever caught the ball first or not.