10 Second Violation

[All_Heart]

NFHS:
A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of a ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds.

NCAA:
An inbounds player (and his team) shall not be in continuous control of a ball that is in his back court for 10 consecutive seconds.

Question 1:
By my understanding the violation takes place at 10.0 seconds not at 10.1, correct?

Question 2:
After a timeout there is 15.0 seconds on the game clock at the end of the game and Team A making a throw-in in the backcourt. Team A gained control immediately on the throw-in. Team A commits a ten second violation. Team B is given a throw-in near the divison line but the clock reads 3.5. What are you supposed to do by rule for NHFS & NCAA?

Question 3:
In NCAA does the 10 second count start when the ball touches a player inbounds in the backcourt or when the player gains player control? The way I'm reading it the inbounds player must gain player control before the 10 second count starts.

[SmokeEater]

Q1. Yes

Q2. I believe nothing. Maybe a slow whistle or clock operator.

Q3. Correct

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by All_Heart

Question 3:
In NCAA does the 10 second count start when the ball touches a player inbounds in the backcourt or when the player gains player control? The way I'm reading it the inbounds player must gain player control before the 10 second count starts.

Modification of this question, I'm sure it's been addressed before:

Team A has control in front court, B1 deflects pass into backcourt, when does 10 second count start? (need NFHS & NCAA)

a) when ball crosses division line (airborne)

b) when ball lands in backcourt

c) when Team A member gains control of ball in backcourt

[All_Heart]

It is when the ball gains backcourt status which is when it touches the floor in the backcourt.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by All_Heart

It is when the ball gains backcourt status which is when it touches the floor in the backcourt.

In high school there is no team control during throw-in, but in NCAA there is.

Therefore in HS, if A1 throw-in lands in backcourt, 10 second count does not start until Team A member secures control, but in NCAA, as soon as ball lands in backcourt 10 second count should commence, correct?

[All_Heart]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

In high school there is no team control during throw-in, but in NCAA there is.

Therefore in HS, if A1 throw-in lands in backcourt, 10 second count does not start until Team A member secures control, but in NCAA, as soon as ball lands in backcourt 10 second count should commence, correct?

I'm trying to figure out this same thing. I don't think that this is correct but it might be. The NCAA rule specifically says "An inbounds player (and his team) shall not be in continuous control of a ball that is in his back court for 10 consecutive seconds." which to me means that a player inbounds must gain player control before the count starts.

SmokeEater says that this is correct so until I'm told otherwise this is how I'm calling it.

[TimTaylor]

In NFHS, the clock starts when the ball is first touched inbounds by any player, but the 10 second count doesn't start until a player gains player control, so there could easily be a difference of several seconds. Coach may not like it, but it's easy to explain.

Want to know what's worse? Call a 10 second violation when only 8 or 9 seconds have elapsed off the clock - try to explain that one!

[Smitty]

I'll use those pesky middle school games to work on my count timing. Since they often don't allow a press in the first half, I can watch the clock as I'm trail checking my count while they bring the ball through the backcourt.

[Bchill24]

A-1 has the ball for a throw in. A-1 throws the ball into the backcourt and nobody from team A touches the ball. Does the 10 second count start? Also, A-2 tap A-1's throw in and it stays on the floor in the backcourt does the count start? I say no to the first and yes to the second. What do you guys have to say?

[Texas Aggie]

Call a 10 second violation when only 8 or 9 seconds have elapsed off the clock - try to explain that one!

Easy. The clock didn't start properly.

I'm not going to call 10 seconds unless they gain an advantage by being back there that long. In other words, if they've released a pass for the front court or are moving past the division line, my count pretty much stops. So, if, in theory, the clock did start properly and only 9 seconds go off the clock when I blow, they are probably around the free throw line extended hung up.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Bchill24

A-1 has the ball for a throw in. A-1 throws the ball into the backcourt and nobody from team A touches the ball. Does the 10 second count start? Also, A-2 tap A-1's throw in and it stays on the floor in the backcourt does the count start? I say no to the first and yes to the second. What do you guys have to say?

I'd say you're right on the first and wrong on the second.

In the second one, you can't start the count until player/team control is established in the back court. Rule 9-8.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by All_Heart

Question 2:
After a timeout there is 15.0 seconds on the game clock at the end of the game and Team A making a throw-in in the backcourt. Team A gained control immediately on the throw-in. Team A commits a ten second violation. Team B is given a throw-in near the divison line but the clock reads 3.5. What are you supposed to do by rule for NHFS & NCAA?

For NFHS you must go by when the whistle was blown (or not blown at all). The game clock does not matter, the official's count does. So if the official has a slow count the defensive team loses some time.

5.10.1 SITUATION B: Team A leads by one point when they inbound the ball in their backcourt with 12 seconds remaining in the fourth quarter. A1's throw-in pass is to A2 who dribbles in the backcourt until the horn sounds. The trail official does not make a 10-second call because he/she "lost the count." RULING: The game is over. The clock may not be reset as there are no rule provisions to do this. If the count was not accurate or was not made, it cannot be corrected. There is no provision for the correction of an error made in the official's accuracy in counting seconds.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I'm not going to call 10 seconds unless they gain an advantage by being back there that long. In other words, if they've released a pass for the front court or are moving past the division line, my count pretty much stops. So, if, in theory, the clock did start properly and only 9 seconds go off the clock when I blow, they are probably around the free throw line extended hung up.

I say that your philosophy equates to screwing the defense.
Do you do the same on your throw-in and closely-guarded counts?

Even the NCAA disagrees with you:


A.R. 185. (Men)
A1 is in the back court and has dribbled for eight seconds when he passes the ball forward toward A2 in the front court. While the ball is in the air, going from back court to front court, the 10-second count expires.
RULING: Violation. The ball shall be awarded to Team B at a designated spot nearest to where A1 was standing when he threw the ball.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

In high school there is no team control during throw-in, but in NCAA there is.

Therefore in HS, if A1 throw-in lands in backcourt, 10 second count does not start until Team A member secures control, but in NCAA, as soon as ball lands in backcourt 10 second count should commence, correct?

Actually, I was thinking about exactly this last week. I went to the NCAA rules book and check for an exception similar to the one that was put in for the backcourt violation (9-12-4), but could not find one. It made be think that the 10 second count should start once the ball touches the backcourt. However, the first words of the rule are "An inbounds player" and the thrower is an out-of-bounds player.
Finally, I thought about the game clock. Can a ten-second count begin BEFORE the game clock starts? For example, thrower A1 makes a bounce pass into the backcourt which remains inbounds and untouched for three full seconds prior to A2 catching the ball. When should the 10-second count begin?
I concluded that it would be nonsense to start the 10-second count prior to the game clock, thus despite there being team control during a throw-in under NCAA rules I'll wait for an inbounds player to control the ball before starting the count.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I say that your philosophy equates to screwing the defense.
Do you do the same on your throw-in and closely-guarded counts?

Even the NCAA disagrees with you:


A.R. 185. (Men)
A1 is in the back court and has dribbled for eight seconds when he passes the ball forward toward A2 in the front court. While the ball is in the air, going from back court to front court, the 10-second count expires.
RULING: Violation. The ball shall be awarded to Team B at a designated spot nearest to where A1 was standing when he threw the ball.

NFHS case book play 9.8SitA basically says exactly the same thing.