Is this curse worthy of a "T"?

[Space76]

Are you kidding me... Not in my lifetime would I call that a "T"...

[Larks]

It just.....wont.......die.....


And the results are in....

For the T: 1.5

Against the T: 98.5

[SmokeEater]

Just wondering out loud here. Someone please quote where in the rules it says that the court is an extension of the classroom. Anywhere?

[drinkeii]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

Just wondering out loud here. Someone please quote where in the rules it says that the court is an extension of the classroom. Anywhere?

It is the policy of the NFHS for all high school sports. It is also the policy of, at least in my case, being from PA, the PIAA as well, and I would hope most state high school sports associations. It is also the policy of just about every school district I have ever had any kind of dealings with, as a student, teacher, or coach.

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by drinkeii

It is the policy of the NFHS for all high school sports. It is also the policy of, at least in my case, being from PA, the PIAA as well, and I would hope most state high school sports associations. It is also the policy of just about every school district I have ever had any kind of dealings with, as a student, teacher, or coach.

SmokeEater asked for a rule quote. You are referring to policy. Those are two very separate things. In the OP it was asked if "How the Hell did you miss Smith on that play?" This was a coach muttering something to his player. Muttering is different than yelling. Is it worthy of a T?....NO. Is it something that the policy of the school, NFHS, PIAA, TASO, OSHA, FBI etc should address? That is up to the individual school/organization. In other words, do your job on the court, and let the other people care about what they need to care about.

[Larks]

Originally Posted by BigTex

In other words, do your job on the court, and let the other people care about what they need to care about.

EXACTLY!!

I also go back to....if you go looking for trouble, it will find you!!

[drinkeii]

Originally Posted by BigTex

SmokeEater asked for a rule quote. You are referring to policy. Those are two very separate things. In the OP it was asked if "How the Hell did you miss Smith on that play?" This was a coach muttering something to his player. Muttering is different than yelling. Is it worthy of a T?....NO. Is it something that the policy of the school, NFHS, PIAA, TASO, OSHA, FBI etc should address? That is up to the individual school/organization. In other words, do your job on the court, and let the other people care about what they need to care about.

I don't know why I got back into this after saying I was going to stay out.

Then mechanics, which are a policy instituted by federations, associations, or assignors, have no bearing on our game. Then league policies, which are not in the rulebook, don't either. Then policies about nondiscrimination have nothing to do with the game either. So I guess we can do whatever we want, as officials (or coaches, or players), as long as it isn't spelled out in the "rules".

I honestly do care whether a coach is swearing at a player or in conversation with a player. Whether you care or not, do what you want - ignore what you want, and watch the ethics of the world come crumbling down, because everyone who is in a position of authority, who is supposed to care about these kinds of things, feels it isn't "their" responsibility. This would be the slippery slope theory.

So I take it you'd watch someone getting robbed, and do nothing to stop it if you had the opportunity without liklihood of harm to yourself, because you aren't a police officer? Yes, quite different from addressing a coach for inappropriately addressing a player, but still an example of someone not interfering because it isn't their "job" or "responsibility". Or maybe it is - as a good person... in both cases.

Whatever... ignore whatever you want to ignore. I'll still choose to address it - if it costs me games, so be it - at least in the end, I did what I felt was right - and since I have to live with my decision, and I'm comfortable with it, end of story. I did what I felt was right, which is more than many can say - most say "Not my problem..." and if they can live with themselves with that attitude, more power to them. It definitely explains a lot of the lowering of standards in our society...

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by drinkeii

Then mechanics, which are a policy instituted by federations, associations, or assignors, have no bearing on our game.

Absolutely false. Proper mechanics matter in varying degrees to the people who assign games. If your assignor places a large emphasis on proper mechanics, then mechanics have a big bearing on your game.

The mechanics prescribed by the NFHS have a bearing only insofar as local organizations, assignors, and fellow officials care about them. I know from reading this forum that Texas uses very different mechanics from some of those in the NFHS handbook. Where I am, we disregard the NFHS mechanics for certain situations, like time-outs.

Mechanics do have a bearing on our game, but not simply because the NFHS says we should do it a certain way.

Whether you care or not, do what you want - ignore what you want, and watch the ethics of the world come crumbling down,

As my pre-teen daughter would say, "Exaggerate much?"

because everyone who is in a position of authority, who is supposed to care about these kinds of things, feels it isn't "their" responsibility. This would be the slippery slope theory.

And the slippery slope theory is one of the most common logical FALACIES in the book. Don't use the slippery slope "theory", because it almost never produces a legitimate conclusion.

So I take it you'd watch someone getting robbed, and do nothing to stop it if you had the opportunity without liklihood of harm to yourself, because you aren't a police officer?

This is, quite honestly, the dumbest statement in this whole thread. Please don't equate "How the he!!" with physical assault and robbery.

I'll still choose to address it - if it costs me games, so be it - at least in the end, I did what I felt was right - and since I have to live with my decision, and I'm comfortable with it, end of story.

That's fine. As long as you recognize the consequences and feel comfortable with them, do what you have to do. If you think that the other 99.9% of us are wrong, go knock yourself out. Is it possible that you're right and we're all wrong? Absoluely. Is it actually the case that you're right and we're all wrong? Sorry, but no.

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by drinkeii

I honestly do care whether a coach is swearing at a player or in conversation with a player. Whether you care or not, do what you want - ignore what you want, and watch the ethics of the world come crumbling down, because everyone who is in a position of authority, who is supposed to care about these kinds of things, feels it isn't "their" responsibility. This would be the slippery slope theory.

So I take it you'd watch someone getting robbed, and do nothing to stop it if you had the opportunity without liklihood of harm to yourself, because you aren't a police officer? Yes, quite different from addressing a coach for inappropriately addressing a player, but still an example of someone not interfering because it isn't their "job" or "responsibility". Or maybe it is - as a good person... in both cases.

Whatever... ignore whatever you want to ignore. I'll still choose to address it - if it costs me games, so be it - at least in the end, I did what I felt was right - and since I have to live with my decision, and I'm comfortable with it, end of story. I did what I felt was right, which is more than many can say - most say "Not my problem..." and if they can live with themselves with that attitude, more power to them. It definitely explains a lot of the lowering of standards in our society...

No where in my post did I say that i did not care, nor that I would ignore it. I answered the question of wether or not it was worthy of a T. I never said you were wrong in addressing it. One way of addressing the situation would be to report it to the PIAA, or whatever governing body is approiate in your state. Another way would be to drop an e-mail or phone call to the AD informing him of the behavior you observed. However, I still do not feel that it is worthy of a T.

Thanks for bringing up the situation about somebody being robbed. You just happened to pick the wrong guy to say that to....because of my job, I am legally bound to intervene if something like that is happening, regardless of the likelihood of harm to myself. However, for someone in a different position, there are more options than stepping in and trying to control the situation. 911 is a great option, then write everything down that you see and hear, then be a great witness to the police and to the court when you testify. Not all situations should be handled by asserting your authority immediately.

[BillyMac]

SmokeEater: FYI: From the NFHS web site:

Benefits of Cocurricular Activities

Activities Support the Academic Mission of Schools. They are not a diversion but rather an extension of a good educational program. Students who participate in activity programs tend to have higher grade-point averages, better attendance records, lower dropout rates and fewer discipline problems than students generally.

Activities are Inherently Educational. Activity programs provide valuable lessons for practical situations - teamwork, sportsmanship, winning and losing, and hard work. Through participation in activity programs, students learn self-discipline, build self-confidence and develop skills to handle competitive situations. These are qualities the public expects schools to produce in students so that they become responsible adults and productive citizens.

Activities Foster Success in Later Life. Participation in high school activities is often a predictor of later success - in college, a career and becoming a contributing member of society.

In the original situation posted, I would probably not have given a technical foul, or for that matter, given it any thought at all, however, here's a situation that happened to me a few years ago:

Small school girls varsity game. Small gymnasium. Medium size crowd. Crowd in bleachers on one side of the gymnasium. Both teams benches on the other side of the gymnasium, with no bleachers. Home coach is a new coach, who I knew personally from coaching with him at camps. New coach is doing a great job coaching a team that in previous years had been the league's doormat. First half. New coach's player makes a mistake that leads to a layup by the oppossing team. This player is now bringing the ball up from the backcourt in front of her coach. I'm with her as the new trail official. Coach says to her "Get your f***ing head in the game".

On the way out of the gymnasium, I went out of my way to "bump" into the athletic director, who I also knew from coaching at camps. I told the athletic director what a great job the new coach was doing with the team, but I had noticed one instance where he had used, what I thought was, inappropriate language for a high school girls team. I didn't want the coach penalized in any way, but I wondered if he could speak to him about it. The athletic director thanked me and said he would speak to his coach and he assured me that it wouldn't happen again. That's how I handled it. It seemed to work for me. I'm sure that many Forum members would have handled it in a different way, but like I said, in this specific situation, this seemed to work for me.

[SmokeEater]

Thanks Billy. I don't question the intentions of NFHS nor David in these posts. I see that what you have posted clearly indicates what NFHS expects the benefits of participating in extra curricular activities. I still think that you would have to infer that (in this case) the court is to be an extension of the "classroom" even from this quote. It states that the activities are mearly an extension of a good educational program. Unless it says to me that it is an extension then I wont treat it any differently.

Respect the game, respect the officials, respect the players. Don't allow violence and don't cross the "line". It is most evident by the way this post has gone the "line" is different for everyone.

I understand why you handled your situation the way you did. I would have probably done it that way as well, unless he said it loud enough for everyone to hear and in a degrading or derogatory manner. Friendship or not their are some things you just can not allow to be said or done when public are in close proximity.
Once again, it comes back to every situation may require a different unique response.

This is my opinion, you are entitled to yours, and you may not be wrong.

Smoke

[Jimgolf]

Okley Dokley, Drinkeii, give a warning, then a technicaliddly fouliddly.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Larks

And the results are in....

For the T: 1.5

Against the T: 98.5

Where was the poll posted? I missed it.