Is this curse worthy of a "T"?

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by drinkeii

the law specifies in PA what minimum amount you must be going over the limit for officers to give you a ticket, and at a minimum, I believe, it is 3 mph at that speed (larger margin at lower speeds).

WRONG--The law states that you can be ticketed for driving in excess of the posted speed limit. The policy is for officers to not write tickets for anything less than three miles over. Once again, you have confused policy with rules.

If the OP had asked wether or not you should ignore the actions of the coach, your arguments would be valid. The OP asked if the actions were worthy of a T, and that has been answered.......and answered......and answered....

[Adam]

David, the point isn't that mechanics and policies don't matter. The point is that you can't call a T for a violation of policies if it isn't spelled out in the rules. Example?
Most states have a rule for how many quarters a player may play in a given day. Let's say you're doing a JV/Varsity double header, and A45 plays all 4 quarters of the JV game. Then he suits up for varsity, and you know for a fact that he played in at least 3 quarters; violating the state's policy of a maximum 6 quarters per day. You going to call a T because he violated state policy?

The point is you can only call a T based on the rules, not policies. Policy violations need to be handled off the court after the game by the proper authorities.

And yes, before you ask, if a coach was physically assaulting a player during a game; I'd likely intervene.

[drinkeii]

Originally Posted by BigTex

WRONG--The law states that you can be ticketed for driving in excess of the posted speed limit. The policy is for officers to not write tickets for anything less than three miles over. Once again, you have confused policy with rules.

If the OP had asked wether or not you should ignore the actions of the coach, your arguments would be valid. The OP asked if the actions were worthy of a T, and that has been answered.......and answered......and answered....

Actually, the LAW spells out those restrictions in the vehicle code in PA, regardless of any local department policies. The ones I am referring to are actual codified laws, specific to the use of electronic measuring devices for speed (and, as just about no one uses mechanical stopwatches anymore...).

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Could somebody get rid of this crap?

I second this motion here as well .... ,above reference to another thread.

[drinkeii]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

David, the point isn't that mechanics and policies don't matter. The point is that you can't call a T for a violation of policies if it isn't spelled out in the rules. Example?
Most states have a rule for how many quarters a player may play in a given day. Let's say you're doing a JV/Varsity double header, and A45 plays all 4 quarters of the JV game. Then he suits up for varsity, and you know for a fact that he played in at least 3 quarters; violating the state's policy of a maximum 6 quarters per day. You going to call a T because he violated state policy?

The point is you can only call a T based on the rules, not policies. Policy violations need to be handled off the court after the game by the proper authorities.

The point is - the rules specify a technical foul for inappropriate language, and for unsportsmanlike conduct. They do not specify a T for the situation you specified above. The situation I mentioned is inapproprite language addressed from an adult to a player. This situation is covered by the rules, and supported by the policy of the various associations that specify that the sports are extentions of the classroom.

The debate seems to be more along the lines of "Is this inappropriate enough to count for a technical foul?" - Some say yes, some say no... if it was "muttered" loud enough for both officials to hear it... I would say it is loud enough and inappropriate enough to address. Substitute various other inappropriate words for the one that was used, and does that change your decision? Should it?

[drinkeii]

Originally Posted by BigTex

No where in my post did I say that i did not care, nor that I would ignore it. I answered the question of wether or not it was worthy of a T. I never said you were wrong in addressing it. One way of addressing the situation would be to report it to the PIAA, or whatever governing body is approiate in your state. Another way would be to drop an e-mail or phone call to the AD informing him of the behavior you observed. However, I still do not feel that it is worthy of a T.

Thanks for bringing up the situation about somebody being robbed. You just happened to pick the wrong guy to say that to....because of my job, I am legally bound to intervene if something like that is happening, regardless of the likelihood of harm to myself. However, for someone in a different position, there are more options than stepping in and trying to control the situation. 911 is a great option, then write everything down that you see and hear, then be a great witness to the police and to the court when you testify. Not all situations should be handled by asserting your authority immediately.

That's fine, and that's your choice. You have a choice in the game. But I am referring to someone who is not legally bound to act. You can choose to stand and watch it happen, or you can choose to intervene in various ways. You could physically attempt to stop the person, or you could call 911, or you could make a lot of noise to try to scare them off, throw things at them, etc.

Or you could choose to ignore it, as it isn't your "job" to address it in any way, which is what I am saying that people who choose not to address the coach speaking inappropriately to his players in some way. T or not? Maybe/Maybe not - I have said before I would have trouble giving the T myself - but I have also said I would not just ignore it - I would say something to the coach. If he snapped at me, I could consider a T, or just wait until he did something worthy of one and hit him with it then.

I honestly don't see how any intelligent person could defend himself in front of any kind of school board, review board, or the public, saying it was appropriate of him to swear to or at players for things they did or didn't do - honestly, I would hope any school board would send that coach packing if the coach felt that was an appropriate way to deal with students.

[BillyMac]

SmokeEater: FYI: From the NFHS web site:

Benefits of Cocurricular Activities

Activities Support the Academic Mission of Schools. They are not a diversion but rather an extension of a good educational program. Students who participate in activity programs tend to have higher grade-point averages, better attendance records, lower dropout rates and fewer discipline problems than students generally.

Activities are Inherently Educational. Activity programs provide valuable lessons for practical situations - teamwork, sportsmanship, winning and losing, and hard work. Through participation in activity programs, students learn self-discipline, build self-confidence and develop skills to handle competitive situations. These are qualities the public expects schools to produce in students so that they become responsible adults and productive citizens.

Activities Foster Success in Later Life. Participation in high school activities is often a predictor of later success - in college, a career and becoming a contributing member of society.

In the original situation posted, I would probably not have given a technical foul, or for that matter, given it any thought at all, however, here's a situation that happened to me a few years ago:

Small school girls varsity game. Small gymnasium. Medium size crowd. Crowd in bleachers on one side of the gymnasium. Both teams benches on the other side of the gymnasium, with no bleachers. Home coach is a new coach, who I knew personally from coaching with him at camps. New coach is doing a great job coaching a team that in previous years had been the league's doormat. First half. New coach's player makes a mistake that leads to a layup by the oppossing team. This player is now bringing the ball up from the backcourt in front of her coach. I'm with her as the new trail official. Coach says to her "Get your f***ing head in the game".

On the way out of the gymnasium, I went out of my way to "bump" into the athletic director, who I also knew from coaching at camps. I told the athletic director what a great job the new coach was doing with the team, but I had noticed one instance where he had used, what I thought was, inappropriate language for a high school girls team. I didn't want the coach penalized in any way, but I wondered if he could speak to him about it. The athletic director thanked me and said he would speak to his coach and he assured me that it wouldn't happen again. That's how I handled it. It seemed to work for me. I'm sure that many Forum members would have handled it in a different way, but like I said, in this specific situation, this seemed to work for me.

[SmokeEater]

Thanks Billy. I don't question the intentions of NFHS nor David in these posts. I see that what you have posted clearly indicates what NFHS expects the benefits of participating in extra curricular activities. I still think that you would have to infer that (in this case) the court is to be an extension of the "classroom" even from this quote. It states that the activities are mearly an extension of a good educational program. Unless it says to me that it is an extension then I wont treat it any differently.

Respect the game, respect the officials, respect the players. Don't allow violence and don't cross the "line". It is most evident by the way this post has gone the "line" is different for everyone.

I understand why you handled your situation the way you did. I would have probably done it that way as well, unless he said it loud enough for everyone to hear and in a degrading or derogatory manner. Friendship or not their are some things you just can not allow to be said or done when public are in close proximity.
Once again, it comes back to every situation may require a different unique response.

This is my opinion, you are entitled to yours, and you may not be wrong.

Smoke

[Jimgolf]

Okley Dokley, Drinkeii, give a warning, then a technicaliddly fouliddly.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by drinkeii

The point is - the rules specify a technical foul for inappropriate language, and for unsportsmanlike conduct. They do not specify a T for the situation you specified above. The situation I mentioned is inapproprite language addressed from an adult to a player. This situation is covered by the rules, and supported by the policy of the various associations that specify that the sports are extentions of the classroom.

The debate seems to be more along the lines of "Is this inappropriate enough to count for a technical foul?" - Some say yes, some say no... if it was "muttered" loud enough for both officials to hear it... I would say it is loud enough and inappropriate enough to address. Substitute various other inappropriate words for the one that was used, and does that change your decision? Should it?

Some would not only say it's not "inappropriate enough," but that it doesn't even fit the category of inappropriate at all. I'm only calling the obviously inappropriate. So, yes, it would matter if the word changed. He drops an F-bomb at his player, I'll address it. If it's just loud enough for me to hear, then I'll just have a word with him if I can find an opportunity. If he shouts it loud enough for the kids at the concession stand to hear, I may consider a T.

Personally, I'm not willing to stick my neck out for "hell."

[tjones1]

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by tjones1

LOL! I love it!