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double whistle and 2 different calls...
how do you vets handle a double whistle with 2 different calls? was in a game recently when A1 as doubleteamed at top of the key. i was trail and the play was in my area. my partner and i blew the whistle at the same time (double whistle). i had double dribble and he had held ball. we came together. i told him that only A1 had her hands on the ball and that it couldn't be a held ball and that A1 dribble was the second dribble thus it's a violation for double dribble. but he insisted. so, since he has 10 years more experience, i let his call stand.
but, i was wondering how much you "argue" with your partner about the correct call after coming together? Especially with an official who has more experience than you. i didn't want to make the situation worse by insisting on a violation call. which was the correct call and was in my "area" of responsibility to call. i guess we should have pre-gamed this double whistle situation better. but, how would you handle this situation? thanks! |
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I agree it should have been pre-gamed. Let's stay in our primary, other than that. We would have gone with the illegal dribble. Without regards to how many years she/he may have RESPECT THE CALL!!!! At the half, we would have had a discussion on who's watching who's area.
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truerookie |
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I tend to be more inclined to call the held ball, especially if my partner is really insisting on that call. That is a much safer call and it is harder to dispute the call.
Now this was your call based on the coverage areas, but there are always exceptions to this rule. Also the circle area is an area where all officials are likely looking under the right circumstances. I guess it depends on the angle either of you have on the play that would ultimately be the decision on whose call you go with. I know people might not like this, but if a veteran is really insistent they got the call right, I am likely going to go with their call. The reason for that is if the veteran is respected I would rather them take the heat for a call like this because they could handle it better. We are a team, but just like a football team the QB gets more of the credit for things that go good or bad. On a non-game changing play I will likely differ to the veteran. Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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I have to agree with JRut - since this was a non-important call (in the grand scheme of things), I would defer to the official who is most insistent. I'm not sure I would automatically defer to them just because they were a senior official, but because we look better as a crew not standing on the floor arguing amongst ourselves. But I would certainly have that discussion at halftime, or after the game, as to why my partner would be making such a call in my area. Perhaps it really was in the "gray area" JRut mentions. Perhaps you were too close to the play and didn't see it like everyone else in the gym. Or, perhaps, my partner was (in their mind) trying too hard to help out a less-experienced partner. But spend as little time as possible discussing the call on the floor - pick one and go with it. Then see if that can be avoided in the future.
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M&M's - The Official Candy of the Department of Redundancy Department. (Used with permission.) |
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John - get together & go with what seems right with as little discussion as possible. I would be tempted to give this call to the T since he has a better view of the top of the key, but there would be times I might defer if the L was 118% sure and could explain with a little better than "'cause I said so". But don't base your decision on who's been working longer.
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9-11-01 http://www.fallenheroesfund.org/fallenheroes/index.php http://www.carydufour.com/marinemoms...llowribbon.jpg |
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Also I did not say who was better. Who is better is very subjective. So if you want to get along and have that veteran support you later, you better learn to "play the game" or you might find yourself having many other calls questioned or without a lot of support. I guess this experience I have has taught me some things. Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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We don't argue at all.
We quickly discuss. [For this interpretation, I am assuming your partner is not an official that trys to make every call on every part of the floor. 10 yr. officials should be better than that.] Where was the ball? Could you see it clearly the entire time? Were you ever partially screened by the action? Was there any chance that a defender touched the ball ? Assuming the play happened as you say but you momentarily lost sight of the ball:
If there actually was a held ball that you did not see, the held ball had to have occured before the 2nd dribble. Going with the held ball was a good idea. |
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Did you ask your partner about this play after the game? If so, what did he/she say?
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"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden |
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Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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In my experience the assignors usually put more pressure on the veteran to keep things from getting out of hand. I know I have been asked to be the "lead" official because of who my partner or partners are. And I know when I work with older and more accomplished officials, they were told similar things when I have worked with them. I am just addressing a trick of the trade. If you think you have all the answers, by all means make a bigger deal out of a double whistle and see what happens. Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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Jmo...
...But I would think that any veteran official worth his salt would have deferred to the Primary in a non-game saving situation. I've only been working 5 years but if I were on the court with a 1st or 2nd year official and we had a double whistle in his/her primary (again, assuming a non-game saving situation) I would have nodded for him/her take the call without even coming together. And if the coach would have had a question for me I simply would say my partner had a LOT better look than I did.
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A-hole formerly known as BNR Last edited by Raymond; Wed Oct 18, 2006 at 01:31pm. |
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M&M's - The Official Candy of the Department of Redundancy Department. (Used with permission.) |
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thanks for all the responses...
thanks for your thoughts. in reference to the play, the reason i was surprised my partner called a held ball, was that i had a clear view of the play the entire time. and at no time, did the defender have their hands on the ball. thus, my surprise at the call. we worked thru it. wasn't a big problem, nor did it look "bad" that we came together on the play. personally, had i been L and my partner been T, i would have deferred to him, since it was in his "primary". i don't have a problem with my parnters calling anything in my area. i just want to get it right all the time.
my reason for posting this situation was to try and figure out how to handle the situations that happen with a double whistle and 2 different calls. this was just one situation that happened to me. i just wanted to make sure we did get it right and move on. from all of your responses, i will address double whistles better in my pre-game. so, thank you, you all helped me out with this situation. i'll definitely be able to handle this situation better the next time it happens! |
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