The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 04, 2000, 12:19am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 31
My partner and I experienced this 2 DEC 00. Visitors down by one with under 10 seconds, shot attempted by visitors but cleanly blocked, ball is loose on the floor and control is gained by home team on the floor in front of my partner who is the lead. At the same time control is established by player, the controlling team coach ask for a T-O to which I grant but my partner whistle sounds and open hand goes up at the same time mine does. We acknowledge one another however I sell the call as a T-O and partner explains to me that he was about to signal traveling. Any takes on this one. My location was trail side near table and partner was deep corner opposite table.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 04, 2000, 12:36am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Houghton, U.P., Michigan
Posts: 9,953
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally posted by ronjay42
My partner and I experienced this 2 DEC 00. Visitors down by one with under 10 seconds, shot attempted by visitors but cleanly blocked, ball is loose on the floor and control is gained by home team on the floor in front of my partner who is the lead. At the same time control is established by player, the controlling team coach ask for a T-O to which I grant but my partner whistle sounds and open hand goes up at the same time mine does. We acknowledge one another however I sell the call as a T-O and partner explains to me that he was about to signal traveling. Any takes on this one. My location was trail side near table and partner was deep corner opposite table.
ronjay,
Good call! Because you anticipated a time-out being called, due to your knowledge of the game, you prevented a sticky wicket.
mick
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 04, 2000, 08:43am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,051
You both really have to determine which came first. My guess it was the travel, because the moment he gained control, he violated. Whether the book states it or not, I am not going to let a TO prevent a violation (unless they are jumping OBB and have not touched land yet).

In other words, it would have been very, very unlikely that the player controlled the ball leagally long enough to call a TO.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 04, 2000, 08:58am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 271
How did the player violate when he gained control?
since this was a loose ball any player can go to the floor
to gain control. He may have violated after they gained control depending on what that player did. I had an instance
where a player dived on a loose ball and while still sliding from his momentum called TO.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 04, 2000, 09:01am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Houghton, U.P., Michigan
Posts: 9,953
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally posted by Brian Watson
You both really have to determine which came first. My guess it was the travel, because the moment he gained control, he violated. Whether the book states it or not, I am not going to let a TO prevent a violation (unless they are jumping OBB and have not touched land yet).

In other words, it would have been very, very unlikely that the player controlled the ball leagally long enough to call a TO.

Brian,
The Coach called the time-out.
mick
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 04, 2000, 09:55am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Just north of hell
Posts: 9,250
Send a message via AIM to Dan_ref
I would have gone with the double foul.

I think you handled it well. As trail table side
you presumably have a good view of the play to see a travel
and you have the coach screaming for TO in your ear.
It sounds like the lead was not in the best position
to get all the facts needed to decide which came first.
Anyway you could take that argument into court. Did you
actually see the travel?
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 04, 2000, 11:00am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,517
I think its clear by the post," the same time control was gained the coach called the TO". Grant the TO.
__________________
foulbuster
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 04, 2000, 12:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,051
I realize the coach was calling the TO, and it sounds to me liek he was trying to prevent the violation.

I guess I would need to see it, because I am making an assumtion, if the kid was on the floor and travelling was called, I presume he must have rolled over. In that case, as he gained control, he was starting a motion which would lead to a violation. This is common with loose ball situations, but not always called (I know I usually don't), but if you call it, you have to go with it.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 04, 2000, 12:46pm
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Exclamation

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick
[B]
Quote:
Originally posted by Brian Watson
Brian,
The Coach called the time-out.
mick
No he didn't. The coach REQUESTED a timeout. Only officials can CALL a timeout.

OK, I didn't post this to be anal (really!). My point is: when does the timeout take precedence over the violation? What I mean is, what if the coach requests a timeout, the other official blows his whistle for a violation and then you blow yours granting the timeout? Althought the request came before the travel, the official timeout (your whistle) didn't come until after the violation.

Now in most cases, one would say that whatever comes first is what you go with, but is the coach REQUESTING a timeout the same as an actual timeout happening, or doesn't the timeout actually happen until you grant it? After all, a coach requesting one doesn't necessarily mean he can get one at that time, so shouldn't the "timeout call" occur when you blow your whistle?

Just a thought for discussion.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 04, 2000, 01:04pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Houghton, U.P., Michigan
Posts: 9,953
Thumbs up Et tu Brute?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark Padgett
[B]
Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Quote:
Originally posted by Brian Watson
Brian,
The Coach called the time-out.
mick
No he didn't. The coach REQUESTED a timeout. Only officials can CALL a timeout.

OK, I didn't post this to be anal (really!). My point is: when does the timeout take precedence over the violation? What I mean is, what if the coach requests a timeout, the other official blows his whistle for a violation and then you blow yours granting the timeout? Althought the request came before the travel, the official timeout (your whistle) didn't come until after the violation.

Now in most cases, one would say that whatever comes first is what you go with, but is the coach REQUESTING a timeout the same as an actual timeout happening, or doesn't the timeout actually happen until you grant it? After all, a coach requesting one doesn't necessarily mean he can get one at that time, so shouldn't the "timeout call" occur when you blow your whistle?

Just a thought for discussion.
Okay, Mark. You got me. The Coach only requested....
I think, it is a violation, or a timeout, when the act is recognized/verified by the calling official, and not when the whistle sounds.
Did I "guess" right?
mick



Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 04, 2000, 02:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,517
I agree Mick, its when you recognize. However you need to use common sense. Be quick to verify the possession and blow the whistle. If you can't verify quick, then you have a violation.
__________________
foulbuster
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 06, 2000, 11:07am
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,557
It's when you recgonize the TO?

I had this play earlier in the year: Classic.

A kid runs to a loose ball going OOB by his team. Jump from inbounds, catches the ball, COACH calls a TO. I look to see who called TO (not the assistant). Kid lands OOB. I whistle the TO and grant it. Other coach goes bonkers. I think from a rule intent POV, it was the right call.

BTW, in the travel-TO situation, it's a TO. Let's be realistic here. You can call a timeoutt AS SOON AS as you gain team control, but you can't violate until some time passes - the time to roll along the floor or the time to put your pivot foot back down onto the floor.

..Mike
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 06, 2000, 11:54am
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Wink

Quote:
Originally posted by JugglingReferee
It's when you recgonize the TO?

I had this play earlier in the year: Classic.

A kid runs to a loose ball going OOB by his team. Jump from inbounds, catches the ball, COACH calls a TO. I look to see who called TO (not the assistant). Kid lands OOB. I whistle the TO and grant it. Other coach goes bonkers. ..Mike
Why did he go "bonkers"? You mean you have a coach who doesn't know the rules? How uncommon!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:11pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1