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Mon Dec 04, 2000, 12:19am
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My partner and I experienced this 2 DEC 00. Visitors down by one with under 10 seconds, shot attempted by visitors but cleanly blocked, ball is loose on the floor and control is gained by home team on the floor in front of my partner who is the lead. At the same time control is established by player, the controlling team coach ask for a T-O to which I grant but my partner whistle sounds and open hand goes up at the same time mine does. We acknowledge one another however I sell the call as a T-O and partner explains to me that he was about to signal traveling. Any takes on this one. My location was trail side near table and partner was deep corner opposite table.
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Mon Dec 04, 2000, 12:36am
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Good call! Because you anticipated a time-out being called, due to your knowledge of the game, you prevented a sticky wicket.  mick
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Mon Dec 04, 2000, 08:43am
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You both really have to determine which came first. My guess it was the travel, because the moment he gained control, he violated. Whether the book states it or not, I am not going to let a TO prevent a violation (unless they are jumping OBB and have not touched land yet).
In other words, it would have been very, very unlikely that the player controlled the ball leagally long enough to call a TO.
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Mon Dec 04, 2000, 08:58am
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How did the player violate when he gained control?
since this was a loose ball any player can go to the floor to gain control. He may have violated after they gained control depending on what that player did. I had an instance where a player dived on a loose ball and while still sliding from his momentum called TO.
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Mon Dec 04, 2000, 09:01am
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Brian, The Coach called the time-out. mick
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Mon Dec 04, 2000, 09:55am
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I would have gone with the double foul.
 I think you handled it well. As trail table side you presumably have a good view of the play to see a travel and you have the coach screaming for TO in your ear. It sounds like the lead was not in the best position to get all the facts needed to decide which came first. Anyway you could take that argument into court. Did you actually see the travel?
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Mon Dec 04, 2000, 11:00am
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I think its clear by the post," the same time control was gained the coach called the TO". Grant the TO.
__________________
foulbuster
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Mon Dec 04, 2000, 12:19pm
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I realize the coach was calling the TO, and it sounds to me liek he was trying to prevent the violation.
I guess I would need to see it, because I am making an assumtion, if the kid was on the floor and travelling was called, I presume he must have rolled over. In that case, as he gained control, he was starting a motion which would lead to a violation. This is common with loose ball situations, but not always called (I know I usually don't), but if you call it, you have to go with it.
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Mon Dec 04, 2000, 12:46pm
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick
[B] Quote:
OK, I didn't post this to be anal (really!). My point is: when does the timeout take precedence over the violation? What I mean is, what if the coach requests a timeout, the other official blows his whistle for a violation and then you blow yours granting the timeout? Althought the request came before the travel, the official timeout (your whistle) didn't come until after the violation. Now in most cases, one would say that whatever comes first is what you go with, but is the coach REQUESTING a timeout the same as an actual timeout happening, or doesn't the timeout actually happen until you grant it? After all, a coach requesting one doesn't necessarily mean he can get one at that time, so shouldn't the "timeout call" occur when you blow your whistle? Just a thought for discussion.
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Mon Dec 04, 2000, 01:04pm
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Et tu Brute?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark Padgett
[B] Quote:
The Coach only requested....I think, it is a violation, or a timeout, when the act is recognized/verified by the calling official, and not when the whistle sounds. Did I "guess" right? mick
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Mon Dec 04, 2000, 02:16pm
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I agree Mick, its when you recognize. However you need to use common sense. Be quick to verify the possession and blow the whistle. If you can't verify quick, then you have a violation.
__________________
foulbuster
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Wed Dec 06, 2000, 11:07am
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It's when you recgonize the TO?
I had this play earlier in the year: Classic. A kid runs to a loose ball going OOB by his team. Jump from inbounds, catches the ball, COACH calls a TO. I look to see who called TO (not the assistant). Kid lands OOB. I whistle the TO and grant it. Other coach goes bonkers. I think from a rule intent POV, it was the right call. BTW, in the travel-TO situation, it's a TO. Let's be realistic here. You can call a timeoutt AS SOON AS as you gain team control, but you can't violate until some time passes - the time to roll along the floor or the time to put your pivot foot back down onto the floor. ..Mike
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Wed Dec 06, 2000, 11:54am
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