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Old Tue Jan 27, 2004, 05:22pm
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Watching last night's Texas/Texas Tech game made me think about something I hadn't given much thought to. I always pre-game with my partner who should take a double-whistle in a "gray area."

One thing I have never discussed is how we communicate who is taking it. When I'm the "R" I usually pat my chest to let my partner know that I'm going to take it or I point to my partner to let him know that he should take it.

Last night I noticed the Lead official point to his partner to take it and at first I thought he was pointing at a player to identify the player who had fouled. I didn't like the way it looked and started wondering if there is a better way I can communicate w/ my partner in this sitch.

What communication signals do you others use for this?

Thanks,

Z
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Old Tue Jan 27, 2004, 05:31pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
Watching last night's Texas/Texas Tech game made me think about something I hadn't given much thought to. I always pre-game with my partner who should take a double-whistle in a "gray area."

One thing I have never discussed is how we communicate who is taking it. When I'm the "R" I usually pat my chest to let my partner know that I'm going to take it or I point to my partner to let him know that he should take it.
You, as R, decide who makes the call?

Quote:


Last night I noticed the Lead official point to his partner to take it and at first I thought he was pointing at a player to identify the player who had fouled. I didn't like the way it looked and started wondering if there is a better way I can communicate w/ my partner in this sitch.

What communication signals do you others use for this?

Thanks,

Z
Simple. "You got it" with or without a point, depending on noise level. Or "I got it" if it's mine.
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Old Tue Jan 27, 2004, 05:53pm
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and sometimes you just have to get together and communicate 'up close and personal'.
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Old Tue Jan 27, 2004, 05:59pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
[/b]
You, as R, decide who makes the call?

[quote][b]

We already decided in our pre-game who makes it. I'm just clarifying. No, it's not a hard-and-fast rule. Usually as R, I'm the more experienced official and the U often gives me that quizzical look.

Z
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Old Tue Jan 27, 2004, 06:23pm
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by zebraman
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
You, as R, decide who makes the call?

Quote:


We already decided in our pre-game who makes it. I'm just clarifying. No, it's not a hard-and-fast rule. Usually as R, I'm the more experienced official and the U often gives me that quizzical look.

Z
That's interesting. In the pregames I've had we discuss who usually has first shot on a double whistle but we never base our discussions on who's R. Or who has more experience.
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Old Tue Jan 27, 2004, 07:03pm
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Lightbulb Are you sure?

Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
Last night I noticed the Lead official point to his partner to take it and at first I thought he was pointing at a player to identify the player who had fouled. I didn't like the way it looked and started wondering if there is a better way I can communicate w/ my partner in this sitch.
Are you sure he was pointing to his partner? Or was it that he was pointing to a player that had been fouled for bonus FT purposes? Because I think it was the latter.

Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
What communication signals do you others use for this?
Mostly just make eye contact of some kind. Then if it has been discussed in the pregame, the official who is not going to take it, just drops out and puts down his arm. Or at the very least, use your voice and say, "I got it," or "you take it." Not much you have to do after that.

Peace
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Old Wed Jan 28, 2004, 12:45pm
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Smile Quick thinking

Unless it is something we specified in the pre-game, I will always check my angle vs his and very quickly decide whose has the better angle for the call to determine if I will be assertive or passive. If I have the angle and feel confident about my call we will have to conference before I yield on my position and judgement . Now if my partner has a better angle but uses poor judgment well he is my partner but not with unconditional love!
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Old Wed Jan 28, 2004, 12:46pm
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How can you possibly tell from where you are whether he had a better angle?
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Old Wed Jan 28, 2004, 02:27pm
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Angle

If he is straightlined he will be able to tell if the player had established a legal guarding position in front of the person with the ball easier than if I was at a right angle to the players involved with the play. He will know if the defensive player may be leaning ito the side on an airborne shooter better than I will. It is an easier call for anyone going directly away or towards you in reguards to positioning of a defensive player. The person at a right angle can see the severity of the contact, verticality, a forearm or shoulder lowered into a defensive player. It is all in the angle. Each person has a different look. You both have a good look, It depends on what you need to see to make the proper call! If I have an angle view and the only concern is positioning the guy who is closer to being straightlined will have the best look.
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Old Wed Jan 28, 2004, 04:27pm
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Wink Well, that's easy.......

Quote:
Originally posted by Smitty
How can you possibly tell from where you are whether he had a better angle?
He must have been a coach in a former life.......They see everything
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Old Wed Jan 28, 2004, 04:37pm
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DJ,

I can agree if you are talking about primary and outside of one's primary or secondary, but to say someone has a better angle is not really a good reason. For one what if you both disagree on who had a better angle? I would think you would have to have more information than that.

Peace
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Old Wed Jan 28, 2004, 04:52pm
DJ DJ is offline
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Double foul?

If we both disagree could it be a double foul? There may be other factors involved but like I said if I think the other person has a better angle I will release the call for sure. What is a better angle? It depends on what happened and where I am when I make the call. Let's face it, we don't always have the best angle even when the call is in our primary and if I don't have the best angle I am more likely to release. As far as a signal to my partner that I am releasing or not, never really thought about a special signal and I think that was the original post. I just put my fist down.
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Old Wed Jan 28, 2004, 05:27pm
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If the "discussion" is anything more than you or I are taking it, then by the book it is a double foul. It is imperitive that this be pregamed. I know what we do isn't by the book, but it works. We work two whistle games out here. If I am the trail, and the B/C occurs at the block as it is going toward the lead, if there is a double whistle I release it to the lead. I know the book says the trail should take it all the way to the hoop, but when there is a question, I think the lead has a better look. The point is, it can't be a long term thing, know who is taking it before it happens....
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Old Wed Jan 28, 2004, 05:53pm
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Re: Double foul?

Quote:
Originally posted by DJ
If we both disagree could it be a double foul?
I guess you could, but it would not make sense in my opinion.

My point is, your position on "I have the better angle" leaves too much up for argument. If you say it was in my primary or I saw the entire play, then we have more concrete information to know who has that call. But to say I have a better angle is really ambiguous and just causes more confusion. And if your ego is not apart of the call, it is really easy to give it up. We both blew the whistle, so why debate over what the call is? Unless you have such an obvious play that cannot be ignored, then maybe. But usually when a double whistle happens, both officials are calling the same thing. If it is in their primary, let them have it.

Peace
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