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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 27, 2006, 09:55pm
oc oc is offline
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backcourt

I've seen posted a few times a list of 4 or 5 requirements for a backcourt violation. Can someone repost it here please?

My best memory:
team control frontcourt
last touched by offense in frontcourt
ball goes to backcourt
first touched by offense.


How about this scenario:
-Team A control frontcourt
-A1 last touches ball in frontcourt
-ball goes backcourt
-ball comes back to frontcourt (backspin, hits official, ...) without touching any player. (ball clearly has frontcourt status)
A1 touches the ball.

Backcourt violation?
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Old Wed Sep 27, 2006, 10:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oc
I've seen posted a few times a list of 4 or 5 requirements for a backcourt violation. Can someone repost it here please?

My best memory:
team control frontcourt
last touched by offense in frontcourt
ball goes to backcourt
first touched by offense.
Technically, the wording is

1) team control
2)front court status
3) team A last to touch before ball achieves backcourt status
4)team A first to touch after ball achieves backcourt status
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 02:11am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oc

How about this scenario:
-Team A control frontcourt
-A1 last touches ball in frontcourt
-ball goes backcourt
-ball comes back to frontcourt (backspin, hits official, ...) without touching any player. (ball clearly has frontcourt status)
A1 touches the ball.

Backcourt violation?
If you evaluate this play with the 4 criteria rainmaker posted for ya, you will conclude that this is a backcourt violation.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 07:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
If you evaluate this play with the 4 criteria rainmaker posted for ya, you will conclude that this is a backcourt violation.
Why??? A1 never touched the ball while it had backcourt status, so how could it be called a backcourt violation?
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Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 07:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef
Why??? A1 never touched the ball while it had backcourt status, so how could it be called a backcourt violation?
Does it matter where A1 touches the ball after it went into the back court, as per R9-1?

If A1, who was completely in the front-court, dribbled on the center line, and the dribble then hit A1 who was still completely in the front court, is that legal also?

Last edited by Jurassic Referee; Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 07:37am.
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Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 07:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Does it matter where A1 touches the ball after it went into the back court, as per R9-1?

If A1, who was completely in the front-court, dribbled on the center line, and the dribble then hit A1 who was still completely in the front court, is that legal also?
Good point. Guess the season is fast approaching and it is time to start doing some reading.
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Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 09:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef
Good point. Guess the season is fast approaching and it is time to start doing some reading.
Know what? Some of these calls are a heckuva lot easier when you can actually see them in a game rather than read about them. Seriously. It's like the jump stop- pivot- travel questions that they throw on the exam every year. For me, it's easier to call those in a game than try to figure out the exam question.

You'd never miss that backcourt one in real life.
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Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 11:39am
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In the posted scenario, once the ball returns to the frontcourt without being touched in the backcourt or by team B, the ball gains frontcourt status and is retrieved by A1. Backcourt violation?
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Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 11:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukealex
In the posted scenario, once the ball returns to the frontcourt without being touched in the backcourt or by team B, the ball gains frontcourt status and is retrieved by A1. Backcourt violation?
Yes -- all the requirements were met.
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Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 11:50am
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Yes, Luke. Search your feelings. You know it to be true!

Sorry!

In order to be a violation, the team in control has to be the last to touch it before it goes into the backcourt and then the first to touch it after it has been in the backcourt. There's no requirement that they touch it while it's in the backcourt.
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Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 01:44pm
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I feel a quiz coming on....maybe even a new one.
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Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 02:25pm
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Exclamation NOT a backcourt violation!!!!

This cannot be a backcourt violation. A1 never touched the ball while the ball had backcourt location. When the ball backs up and hit the ref in the frontcourt, then the ball has frontcourt location (rule 4,4,4). A1, in the frontcourt, grabs a ball that is in the frontcourt. Play on! End of story!
In Rule 9,9,1 you have to assume that the player in front court went into backcourt to retreive the ball and then you have a backcourt violation!
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Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 02:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kycat1
This cannot be a backcourt violation. A1 never touched the ball while the ball had backcourt location. When the ball backs up and hit the ref in the frontcourt, then the ball has frontcourt location (rule 4,4,4). A1, in the frontcourt, grabs a ball that is in the frontcourt. Play on! End of story!
In Rule 9,9,1 you have to assume that the player in front court went into backcourt to retreive the ball and then you have a backcourt violation!
Sorry, kycat, but you are wrong. There's no requirement in the rule that the ball be touched in the backcourt, or that the ball have backcourt status when it's touched. Only that the ball did go from the FC to the BC and team A was the last to touch and the first to touch (see above in the thread for the specific criteria).
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Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 02:39pm
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Hey KY, glad to have you pitch in here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kycat1
This cannot be a backcourt violation. A1 never touched the ball while the ball had backcourt location.
Unfortunately, that is irrelevant. The violation is not for touching the ball in the backcourt. The violation is for being the first to touch the ball after causing the ball to go into the backcourt.

Quote:
When the ball backs up and hit the ref in the frontcourt, then the ball has frontcourt location (rule 4,4,4). A1, in the frontcourt, grabs a ball that is in the frontcourt.
Again, true, but irrelevant. Who caused the ball to go into the backcourt? (By that, I mean who touched it last before it went into the backcourt?) A1. Who was the first to touch it after it went into the backcourt? A1 again. Violation.

BTW, rule citations are given with dashes, not commas. Just for clarity (so we know if we're talking about a rule or a case play), your citation should look like 4-4-4.

Quote:
In Rule 9,9,1 you have to assume that the player in front court went into backcourt to retreive the ball
Why would we assume that, when it's not written there?
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Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 02:40pm
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