backcourt

[ChuckElias]

Yes, Luke. Search your feelings. You know it to be true!

Sorry!

In order to be a violation, the team in control has to be the last to touch it before it goes into the backcourt and then the first to touch it after it has been in the backcourt. There's no requirement that they touch it while it's in the backcourt.

[BktBallRef]

I feel a quiz coming on....maybe even a new one.

[kycat1]

This cannot be a backcourt violation. A1 never touched the ball while the ball had backcourt location. When the ball backs up and hit the ref in the frontcourt, then the ball has frontcourt location (rule 4,4,4). A1, in the frontcourt, grabs a ball that is in the frontcourt. Play on! End of story!
In Rule 9,9,1 you have to assume that the player in front court went into backcourt to retreive the ball and then you have a backcourt violation!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by kycat1

This cannot be a backcourt violation. A1 never touched the ball while the ball had backcourt location. When the ball backs up and hit the ref in the frontcourt, then the ball has frontcourt location (rule 4,4,4). A1, in the frontcourt, grabs a ball that is in the frontcourt. Play on! End of story!
In Rule 9,9,1 you have to assume that the player in front court went into backcourt to retreive the ball and then you have a backcourt violation!

Sorry, kycat, but you are wrong. There's no requirement in the rule that the ball be touched in the backcourt, or that the ball have backcourt status when it's touched. Only that the ball did go from the FC to the BC and team A was the last to touch and the first to touch (see above in the thread for the specific criteria).

[ChuckElias]

Hey KY, glad to have you pitch in here.

Originally Posted by kycat1

This cannot be a backcourt violation. A1 never touched the ball while the ball had backcourt location.

Unfortunately, that is irrelevant. The violation is not for touching the ball in the backcourt. The violation is for being the first to touch the ball after causing the ball to go into the backcourt.

When the ball backs up and hit the ref in the frontcourt, then the ball has frontcourt location (rule 4,4,4). A1, in the frontcourt, grabs a ball that is in the frontcourt.

Again, true, but irrelevant. Who caused the ball to go into the backcourt? (By that, I mean who touched it last before it went into the backcourt?) A1. Who was the first to touch it after it went into the backcourt? A1 again. Violation.

BTW, rule citations are given with dashes, not commas. Just for clarity (so we know if we're talking about a rule or a case play), your citation should look like 4-4-4.

In Rule 9,9,1 you have to assume that the player in front court went into backcourt to retreive the ball

Why would we assume that, when it's not written there?

[BBall_Junkie]

why do I have a sudden desire to eat popcorn?

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by BBall_Junkie

why do I have a sudden desire to eat popcorn?

Nah, he'll figure it out.

[kycat1]

You guys are going to tell me that if you have a player standing in frontcourt picking up a ball that has frontcourt position you are going to call a backcourt violation????? You guys are insane and the coach will eat your lunch! If nothing and no one is in the backcourt, how can you possibly call backcourt?????

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by kycat1

You guys are going to tell me that if you have a player standing in frontcourt picking up a ball that has frontcourt position you are going to call a backcourt violation????? You guys are insane and the coach will eat your lunch!

And then after he looks up the rule, she'll eat crow.

If nothing and no one is in the backcourt, how can you possibly call backcourt?????

Because that's the rule. The rule isn't "being in the backcourt illegally" or "touching in the backcourt illegally."

[David B]

Originally Posted by kycat1

You guys are going to tell me that if you have a player standing in frontcourt picking up a ball that has frontcourt position you are going to call a backcourt violation????? You guys are insane and the coach will eat your lunch! If nothing and no one is in the backcourt, how can you possibly call backcourt?????

And if the player steps on the backcourt line with his foot after being in FC you won't call that backcourt either?

As long as its the rule, it doesn't matter what the coach thinks.

Thanks
David

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by kycat1

You guys are insane and the coach will eat your lunch!

Hey kycat1,

Most of the officials here know the rules and will call the appropriately. Most of them here also know how to handle a game and a coach. The coach might eat your lunch, but it wouldn't be allowed by a strong official. Maybe your are the insane one.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by kycat1

You guys are going to tell me that if you have a player standing in frontcourt picking up a ball that has frontcourt position you are going to call a backcourt violation????? You guys are insane and the coach will eat your lunch! If nothing and no one is in the backcourt, how can you possibly call backcourt?????

So you make your calls based on what the coach is going to say after you blow your whistle?

Partner, with all due respect, please learn the rules or get out of officiating. You make it more difficult for every official who tries to call the game correctly.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by kycat1

You guys are going to tell me that if you have a player standing in frontcourt picking up a ball that has frontcourt position you are going to call a backcourt violation????? You guys are insane and the coach will eat your lunch! If nothing and no one is in the backcourt, how can you possibly call backcourt?????

KY, this is from the 2006-07 NCAA Rulebook, take it for what it is worth. I already admitted I was wrong and needed to read, maybe you should do the same.

Rule 9.12-1
A.R. 190. A1 is in possession of the ball in the front court and throws a pass to A2 , who is located near the division line. A1’s pass is errant. A2 leaves the playing court with both feet in an attempt to prevent the ball from going into the back court. While in the air, A2 gains possession of the ball and throws it into the playing court, where it strikes the division line. The ball returns to the front court, where A3 recovers the ball before it is touched by an opponent. RULING: Team A has committed a back-court violation. The official shall blow the whistle for the back-court violation when the ball is touched by A3 in the front court after it touched the division line. Team A had control of the ball in its front court and the ball was last touched by Team A before going into the back court. Rule 9-12 says nothing about where the ball goes after it goes into the back court.

The bold sentence at the end is directly from the NCAA rulebook, I did not add that in.

[Texref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

KY, this is from the 2006-07 NCAA Rulebook, take it for what it is worth. I already admitted I was wrong and needed to read, maybe you should do the same.

Rule 9.12-1
A.R. 190. A1 is in possession of the ball in the front court and throws a pass to A2 , who is located near the division line. A1’s pass is errant. A2 leaves the playing court with both feet in an attempt to prevent the ball from going into the back court. While in the air, A2 gains possession of the ball and throws it into the playing court, where it strikes the division line. The ball returns to the front court, where A3 recovers the ball before it is touched by an opponent. RULING: Team A has committed a back-court violation. The official shall blow the whistle for the back-court violation when the ball is touched by A3 in the front court after it touched the division line. Team A had control of the ball in its front court and the ball was last touched by Team A before going into the back court. Rule 9-12 says nothing about where the ball goes after it goes into the back court.

The bold sentence at the end is directly from the NCAA rulebook, I did not add that in.

I understand everything that has been said in this thread and I'm sorry for bringing it back to the surface, but in reading rule 9-12-1 it says the following:
"A player shall not be the first to touch the ball in his or her backcourt when the ball came from the front court..."
Now I also realize that the A.R. posted is a direct interpretation of the rule, but it does seem to contradict it to an extent.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by kycat1

You guys are going to tell me that if you have a player standing in frontcourt picking up a ball that has frontcourt position you are going to call a backcourt violation????? You guys are insane and the coach will eat your lunch! If nothing and no one is in the backcourt, how can you possibly call backcourt?????

So....if a player dribbling in the front court retreats close to the center line, bounces the ball on the center line, and then touches the ball on the rebound while still standing completely in the front court....that also isn't a backcourt violation, kycat? That would be insane also if one of us called that?

Lah me......