Post Play

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You're doing a whole bunch of assuming, aren't you?

Well, I do assume you read the things you type:

Originally Posted by Franklin Hardesty

I would rip off the arm that you signalled the 2 with and then I would club you over the head with the wet end, followed by ripping off your flattened head and crapping down your neck.

I'd smack you silly if you pulled that one!

I'd smack you sillier too if you ever tried that....and I know where you live

If anybody ever tried to pre-game that one with me, I'd tell 'em to go find another partner. Homey don't play dat game!

[JRutledge]

Some people need to actually read the CCA Mechanics books. The center of the court is considered a dual area for 3 point shots. At least that is the way it is on the Men's side. So yes, two officials might rule on a 3 point attempt.

Also the way JR wants a dispute to be handled on shots that are either 2 or 3 point shots is totally against every way I have been told to handle those conflicts. In every college camp I have attended (and HS camp as well) over the past few years. We have been taught to just correct it without a conference. You also only correct a shot when you are 100% sure you have something different. If you are not sure, you leave it alone.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I work for several different college supervisors, and have NEVER been asked that question in relation to fixing a 3/2 point shot...their concern is always that we - as a crew - get the call right.

In fact you're more likely to hear "HOW COME NO ONE CAUGHT THAT??!!!!"

And Chuck, I believe we've already established that you are definitely NOT elitist.

errrr...is "tall" an alternate meaning for elitist?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Gee, somehow I can kinda agree with them too.

Do they really care how you get the call right?

Not particularly - speaking of this particular play, anyway. My main supervisor has stated repeatedly "Just fix it and keep the damn game going."

[mick]

In my experience these things have happened to me:

1. Partner wasn't sure and looked to me.
2. Partner neither signaled 'three', nor signaled 'close two'.

In those instances, I do not need to have a discussion with partner. I can simply signal my partner, or I can tell the table that "The last shot was a three."
There is no reason for anything else.

If it ever happens that my partner signals (two or three) points, the number of which I definitively disagree, then I would feel remiss if I did not blow the whistle and ask my partner to rethink his call. This is why:

• My whistle, shortly after my partner's signal, should closely correspond with the timing of the reaction (of the fans, players and coaches). With the dead ball and a quick chat, I have just enabled my partner (and crew) avoid an *Owee*.

More often than not (my games), it is has been pre-gamed that if one partner goes to another partner for "anything", then a call will be changed (for good or bad) because there will be no lenghty discussion out on the floor. It is the singular responsibilty of the partner (who suggests the change) to be right.

I have had instances when a partner (who is listening to a coach or fans) has stopped a game and told me that "they" (coaches, fans) thought differently. That really irks me, but other than that it changes nothing, except for noting the trust that my partner has for me.

mick

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ManWhoIsAboutToBeFoundInSevenDifferentCounties

Well, I do assume you read the things you type:

"Now you're starting to really piss me off!"
-Leatherneck

[ChuckElias]

"Franklin Hardesty"

Took me a few Google clicks, but I found it. A propos.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

I agree 100% with this. I feel if the hand checks philosophy is being called on the perimeter players, then we need to also send a message to clean up the post play as well.

I disagree with this idea, because handchecking or putting a forearm on the perimeter causes for a less free flowing game and the players are facing each other instead of one facing the opponent and the other facing away from the basket. When there is a player with his/her back to the basket, it is very hard for a defender to have a chance to play defense in the post without being able to have a forearm on them to feel them out and give them a chance to hold their position with the offensive player in a back down position. This is different from perimeter forearm in that 9 times out of 10 a perimeter forearm causes for a reroute or an impede of progress to the basket, whereas a forearm in the post if used correctly and legally, in my terms, is used to maintain and feel the player and for those reasons alone.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

When there is a player with his/her back to the basket, it is very hard for a defender to have a chance to play defense in the post without being able to have a forearm on them to feel them out and give them a chance to hold their position

I disagree with this, personally. Why should a guy in the post be able to "feel them out", but the guy on the perimeter is not allowed to do the same? Post defense should be played the same way as perimeter defense -- with the feet! Get your body between your man and the basket and make him go a different direction. There's no provision in HS ball for "getting a feel" for an opponent. In fact, the FED expressly states that "tagging up" to find the offensive player is a foul. Of course it's harder to play defense without using your forearm; but it's supposed to be! The fact that it's easier to use the forearm doesn't mean that it's ok to use it.

9 times out of 10 a perimeter forearm causes for a reroute or an impede of progress to the basket, whereas a forearm in the post if used correctly and legally, in my terms, is used to maintain and feel the player and for those reasons alone.

I personally think that the forearm is used to reroute or impede in the post VERY often. Very few players have a forearm on the offensive player simply for feel. They are trying to move a guy off a spot or keep him from getting to a spot. Most of the time, not all the time, obviously.

And again, in HS ball, it's simply not allowed to use the hands or forearms to get a feel for the opponent. I don't think that's just my opinion, either. I'm pretty sure that's the FED directive. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

"Franklin Hardesty"

Took me a few Google clicks, but I found it. A propos.

Even though I'm retired, I still do commercials for Stihl.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Even though I'm retired, I still do commercials for Stihl.

Hey! I've seen you on the internet!

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Hey! I've seen you on the internet!

Dan, this video says it is on DVD, if Jurassic was in this one it would be on BETA or a even a film strip.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Agree to digress. We do that a lot.

A2D means "agree to disagree." We do that more.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

I personally think that the forearm is used to reroute or impede in the post VERY often. Very few players have a forearm on the offensive player simply for feel. They are trying to move a guy off a spot or keep him from getting to a spot. Most of the time, not all the time, obviously.

This is why I love refereeing! I get to make judgement calls. By god I want to have to judge whether that player used his forearm to push the player off his spot or is he just using it to maintain position?

[mick]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

By god I want to have to judge whether that player used his forearm to push the player off his spot or is he just using it to maintain position?

You seem very passionate about this game.
That can be a good thing.