Post Play

[ChuckElias]

I said I was excusing myself from the thread, but what the hay. . .

Originally Posted by RonRef

Chuck, are you a ball watcher then?

Suppose I am. Are you saying that I should intentionally fail to correct an obvious error simply b/c I'm not "supposed" to be looking at it?

Or are you saying that as the C, you never help out on a 2/3 point attempt near the top of the circle, even if it's in the T's primary?

Or are you saying that you should be so focused on your one matchup in the C that you disregard the rest of the court?

Or are you saying that it's not possible to have a good look at another area of the court while "looking through" that matchup?

Or are you simply saying that you think I'm an elitist prick?

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by RonRef

Chuck, are you a ball watcher then?

There are lots of 3-pointers in the gray area. There are lots of screens above the 3-point line where the C has to help with the arriving screener so he is looking into the T's area.

If you look at past discussions about "getting the play right," I am one who does not agree with the "get the play right" philosophy when it means that officials are not taking care of their own primary coverage areas.

However, there are times when we see through our own area and get a great look. There are also many times when the T's primary area is the C's secondary area (and vice versa). There are also times when the C has nothing in his area and the T's area is full of players and it's obvious that the T needs help.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

I said I was excusing myself from the thread, but what the hay. . .


Suppose I am. Are you saying that I should intentionally fail to correct an obvious error simply b/c I'm not "supposed" to be looking at it?

Or are you saying that as the C, you never help out on a 2/3 point attempt near the top of the circle, even if it's in the T's primary?

Or are you saying that you should be so focused on your one matchup in the C that you disregard the rest of the court?

Or are you saying that it's not possible to have a good look at another area of the court while "looking through" that matchup?

Or are you simply saying that you think I'm an elitist prick?

I am saying that you are very funny!

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by zebraman

There are lots of 3-pointers in the gray area. There are lots of screens above the 3-point line where the C has to help with the arriving screener so he is looking into the T's area.

If you look at past discussions about "getting the play right," I am one who does not agree with the "get the play right" philosophy when it means that officials are not taking care of their own primary coverage areas.

However, there are times when we see through our own area and get a great look. There are also many times when the T's primary area is the C's secondary area (and vice versa). There are also times when the C has nothing in his area and the T's area is full of players and it's obvious that the T needs help.

We can come up with this and that and this and that all day, we just need to make sure that we are covering our primary areas first. I am not saying we shouldn't help out our partners and get the call right. I am saying if this happens a lot I am going to ask the question "what are you doing looking in my area all the time when you have you own area to watch?" Trust your partner and work the system.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If the 3 was shot in my primary?

I'd smack you silly if you pulled that one!

Partners of higher pedigree than my own (meaning when I work JuCo games with NCAA experienced officials), have always pre-gamed that if we see a foot on a line (100% surety) to just give the "2" signal to the table and to our partners. No need to stop the game with a whistle.

Personally, I'm only changing it if it is in transition and I know I had a better view than the "primary" or a "top of the key" situation where I'm 'T' or 'C' and from my angle I see a foot blatantly on the line.

Definitely not a call I go looking for and definitely a situation the Crew Chief needs to pre-game as to how he/she wants the crew to handle it.

[RonRef]

Suppose I am. Are you saying that I should intentionally fail to correct an obvious error simply b/c I'm not "supposed" to be looking at it?
***Never, but why are you looking there?

Or are you saying that as the C, you never help out on a 2/3 point attempt near the top of the circle, even if it's in the T's primary?
***If I am a supervisor I would ask why do we have 2 pair of eyes on a 3 point attempt!

Or are you saying that you should be so focused on your one matchup in the C that you disregard the rest of the court?
***The rest of the court has two other officials working it, trust your partners.

Or are you saying that it's not possible to have a good look at another area of the court while "looking through" that matchup?
***That "looking through" gives you a 100% look to see if your partner missed a foot on the line?

Or are you simply saying that you think I'm an elitist prick? [/QUOTE]
***Are you?

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Partners of higher pedigree than my own (meaning when I work JuCo games with NCAA experienced officials), have always pre-gamed that if we see a foot on a line (100% surety) to just give the "2" signal to the table and to our partners. No need to stop the game with a whistle.

Personally, I'm only changing it if it is in transition and I know I had a better view than the "primary" or a "top of the key" situation where I'm 'T' or 'C' and from my angle I see a foot blatantly on the line.

Definitely not a call I go looking for and definitely a situation the Crew Chief needs to pre-game as to how he/she wants the crew to handle it.

You understand that it was a two and your partners may understand but does the table crew understand. Odds are they will buzz the horn and ask if it was a two or a three anyways!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by RonRef

You understand that it was a two and your partners may understand but does the table crew understand. Odds are they will buzz the horn and ask if it was a two or a three anyways!

In HS and JuCo, never had a table that didn't understand what was meant when an official ran by signaling "2". But just in case, guess that I should add that to my pre-game with the table crews.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

In HS and JuCo, never had a table that didn't understand what was meant when an official ran by signaling "2". But just in case, guess that I should add that to my pre-game with the table crews.

My supervisor wants us to stop the play and signal 2 to the table.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by RonRef

Are you saying that I should intentionally fail to correct an obvious error simply b/c I'm not "supposed" to be looking at it?
***Never, but why are you looking there?

Who knows? Maybe all 10 players are on the opposite side of the court. It happens. Maybe I'm having a brain cramp. Maybe I'm keeping an eye on a couple of troublemakers and they're on a coverage boundary. There are several reasons that I could be looking there; some good ones and some not good ones. The point of the previous discussion is merely that you saw it.

Or are you saying that as the C, you never help out on a 2/3 point attempt near the top of the circle, even if it's in the T's primary?
***If I am a supervisor I would ask why do we have 2 pair of eyes on a 3 point attempt!

Honestly, I don't think a college supervisor would ask that.

Or are you saying that you should be so focused on your one matchup in the C that you disregard the rest of the court?
***The rest of the court has two other officials working it, trust your partners.

As I already pointed out, there are legitimate reasons for expanding your coverage area.

Or are you saying that it's not possible to have a good look at another area of the court while "looking through" that matchup?
***That "looking through" gives you a 100% look to see if your partner missed a foot on the line?

Possibly. Are you saying you can't be sure of anything you see beyond the matchup you're watching?

Or are you simply saying that you think I'm an elitist prick?
***Are you?

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: I'm not elitist.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by RonRef

My supervisor wants us to stop the play and signal 2 to the table.

Well then, that makes that portion of the pre-game easy.

Crew-chief: "On plays where we change a 3 to a 2, stop the play with a whistle and signal "2" to the table"

U1: "OK"

U2: "No problem boss, that how's my friend Jurassic likes it handled also"

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Well then, that makes that portion of the pre-game easy.

Crew-chief: "On plays where we change a 3 to a 2, stop the play with a whistle and signal "2" to the table"

U1: "OK"

U2: "No problem boss, that how's my friend Jurassic likes it handled also"

I think the way our friend Jurassic wants it handled is you toot the whistle & everybody huddles to decide who's lying eyes to believe and if you're lucky he won't go "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" on you because he thinks his lying eyes are better than your lying eyes.

I agree hit the whistle to get the table's attention, but this shouldn't stop play all that much because normally it should all be said & done before the next throw-in starts.

Unless we do it Jurassic's way and then it's gonna look like the nightly news report from Bahgdad.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I think the way our friend Jurassic wants it handled is you toot the whistle & everybody huddles to decide who's lying eyes to believe and if you're lucky he won't go "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" on you because he thinks his lying eyes are better than your lying eyes.

I agree hit the whistle to get the table's attention, but this shouldn't stop play all that much because normally it should all be said & done before the next throw-in starts.

Unless we do it Jurassic's way and then it's gonna look like the nightly news report from Bahgdad.

You're doing a whole bunch of assuming, aren't you?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by RonRef

***If I am a supervisor I would ask why do we have 2 pair of eyes on a 3 point attempt!

I work for several different college supervisors, and have NEVER been asked that question in relation to fixing a 3/2 point shot...their concern is always that we - as a crew - get the call right.

And Chuck, I believe we've already established that you are definitely NOT elitist.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

...their concern is always that we - as a crew - get the call right.

Gee, somehow I can kinda agree with them too.

Do they really care how you get the call right?